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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 25, 2005 13:32:38 GMT -6
Ah-Ah-Ah....you can't say that I'm wrong. I said "I BELIEVE that no one has the right to decide..." It was an opinion, which is neither right nor wrong...its just an opinion. Sarcasm too! Sarcasm too, maybe not. Actually none of us are right if you want to get right down to the fine point in this issue. We can debate this for years and still never have a correct answer from either side. Dan it's just both of our opinions, that all it is. You have one opinion I have another. Is either one of us right. Who the fuck knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As I said earlier it is an individuals choice(or their spouses and that depeneds on the couple) to check out early if the wish. Got to run. Need to get some work done today.!!!! Joe.
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Post by Hedo69 on Mar 25, 2005 13:33:49 GMT -6
And Hey Joe!!!
I have been lurking around, but most times, it seems someone has already made my point or else my point may not be worth the argument. This one is, as I feel strongly for the right for this woman to be able to die in peace.
Don't worry, I keep up with you guys on almost a daily basis. Some more of that Three Mutt might help me post more though!!!!!!!!!!!! Still have a couple bottle left, but have enjoyed them all tremedously.
Deborah
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 25, 2005 13:35:34 GMT -6
The only problem is that the Government DOES take it out of the air, and as Jake said, they only took 2% at first, now they take 1/3....sliding slope....sliding slope. My last shot here. Yeah but they do it with the fear of throwing your ass in jail and taking everything you own at the same time. Then you might be better off dead. Joe.
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Post by danimal on Mar 25, 2005 13:56:30 GMT -6
Dan, I have no idea where your vacuum idea came from. It is ok to let a loved one die, we all die. WE ALL DIE. The first sentence was sarcasm. Sorry if you didn't get it. We all die, true, but we don't all die innocently from a government-sanctioned death. So, if we threw Terri off a cliff and God wanted her to live, she'd survive? (sorry, more sarcasm) So, to put my quote BACK into context, if a child had no hope on earth of surviving without a tube feeding him for the rest of his life, the human love and kindness thing to do would be to starve it? You know, last night on TV I saw a couple wheeling a young girl about 9 years old in a wheelchair who was clearly in a vegetative state. How CRUEL! They certainly LOOKED happy, but really, how could they be? (more sarcasm) My goodness, I didn't realize that atheists were so damn fearless. I admire your fearlessness. (more sarcasm) I also applaud your insight into my psyche to the point where you know my innermost fears (more sarcasm...sorry, I can't help it...something about this topic brings out the smartass in me...that usually only happens when I give a damn about something...otherwise I'm my same ol' dorky Star-Trek geek self. Bizarre, ain't it?) Yes, they do become one flesh as the Bible states. And its funny that you should put it that way...you know, when a limb becomes infected to the point where it is no longer useful, that limb is usually cut off, NOT to let it rest in peace, but so that it won't infect the rest of the living tissue.....now hmm, now THERE's something to think about... Do you enjoy taking quotes out of context? I've tried not to take any of yours out of context.
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Post by DT on Mar 25, 2005 14:05:08 GMT -6
The courts have restored my faith in them. Terry will die as should be. Looks like you be better off in the state of Oregon for the right to die. You wouldn't have to suffer through starvation in that state.
psssst........ The God I understand permits things to happen. If God wanted Terry alive? She would be alive.
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Post by danimal on Mar 25, 2005 14:23:28 GMT -6
The courts have restored my faith in them. Terry will die as should be. Looks like you be better off in the state of Oregon for the right to die. You wouldn't have to suffer through starvation in that state. psssst........ The God I understand permits things to happen. If God wanted Terry alive? She would be alive. My, my.... I didn't know that withholding food and water was a God-given mandate. I guess that whole Mana-from-Heaven bit was one of God's Fuck ups then.....
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Post by Hedo69 on Mar 25, 2005 15:05:44 GMT -6
Dan,
Do you have any real opinions or just sarcasm? I gave real opinions and didn't take your notes out of context as I understood them.
Not trying just to argue with you or your beliefs. I respect your beliefs and have no need to try to ch-ch-change them. I simply feel as strongly about this issue as you do and if you wish to use your sharp wit to disagree, please have at it.
This would not have been a government sanctioned death if the parents had not drug the government into it.
Yes, I honestly feel pretty fearless about life. To me life is to enjoy not to fear. Our time here is too short as it is. Not sure if this is due to my atheist stance or not, but I do know I value life much more now that I believe the way I do. LIFE, not just being alive..but life. However, if this happened to one of my children (I have two) I might do an about face and be like Terri's parents, but somehow I doubt it. I think they want to keep her around for THEM, not for Terri.
Edited: for damn typos
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Post by danimal on Mar 25, 2005 15:55:50 GMT -6
Dan, Do you have any real opinions or just sarcasm? I gave real opinions and didn't take your notes out of context as I understood them. Not trying just to argue with you or your beliefs. I respect your beliefs and have no need to try to ch-ch-change them. I simply feel as strongly about this issue as you do and if you wish to use your sharp wit to disagree, please have at it. This would not have been a government sanctioned death if the parents had not drug the government into it. Yes, I honestly feel pretty fearless about life. To me life is to enjoy not to fear. Our time here is too short as it is. Not sure if this is due to my atheist stance or not, but I do know I value life much more now that I believe the way I do. LIFE, not just being alive..but life. However, if this happened to one of my children (I have two) I might do an about face and be like Terri's parents, but somehow I doubt it. I think they want to keep her around for THEM, not for Terri. Edited: for damn typos Yes, I do have opinions. And when you take one line out of the surrounding text and react to just that sentence and not to the whole idea, that IS taking things out of context. I don't believe that "shit happens." I think that's an irresponsible attitude. Things happen for a reason, and words mean things. I am a pessimist. I don't beleive in the inherent goodness of people...individuals, yes, but groups of people? No. I believe that Groups of people are toady and lemming-like. I believe the only time you get to see who people are is when you talk to them face to face, and they only time you really get to know who they are is when they're naked, hence the reason I am a nudist. It is this mistrust of groups of people that makes me believe that people will use this 'mercy killing' as a presedent to go further in 'mercy killing.' Do I want mentally or physically deficient people to be put to death? Hell no! I think every life is important, no matter what condition their mind or body is in. But I do not think that the general populus as a whole has either the brains or the cohones to stand up to some idiot when he says "My son will never be able to live on his own. He is a burden to me and I want him starved to death." And once he gets his way, it allows others to go further, and further and further, to the point where if you're not young, healthy and under 30, you're a waste of life and just using up resources. In Star Trek, First Contact, Captain Picard says about the borg "The line must be drawn HERE! NO FURTHER!" I've always wondered why they chose the Borg to think and act the way they do (see, when I watch movies or read books, I try to think about what the author is really trying to say, whether on a conscious or unconcious level.) The Borg are US. Or rather, what we will become if we don't assert our individuality. They are worse than being good or evil, they are amoral. And they want you and me to be just as amoral as they are. If it can be assimilated, it will be. If it can't, its just resources and it should be destroyed or recycled. I don't see this ending of Terri's life as a being kind or being merciful. Its too calculated; too callous. People talk about the years that she's been in this condition and that its too late. Its a reason to give up. To accept mediocrity. To accept "shit happens." I don't like to simply give up. As a mother, I am sure you wouldn't advocate giving up to your children. Accepting mediocrity. Accepting that 'well, shit happens', would you? If your child came home with all F's on his report card, would you simply tell him/her "Well. I guess that was the best you could do" and simply give up? I believe in life too, and I believe that one of the basic principles of life is NEVER GIVE UP. Hows that for an opinion?
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Post by That English Guy on Mar 25, 2005 17:25:19 GMT -6
As Bob said :
IMHO Terri left her body 15 years ago and has been with her maker ever since.
Simon
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Post by Guest on Mar 25, 2005 17:34:15 GMT -6
The Schiavo tragedy is filled with profound contradictions: on one hand; Stem Cell research is considered anathema by the religious Right. Yet this very research of human cells is taboo; and cannot be used in scientific research that could save human life.
President George W. Bush said in August 2001, that stem cell research was opening the door to human cloning. A person could potentially clone themselves in the event that they needed a new heart, liver etc., this is incredible. The fact that a person would attempt to clone themselves, create a human life, live with that person and then kill them for their organs is beyond reason.
Science with stem cell research has the potential to save so many lives, yet it is not the policy of the religious Right. Had it not been for science Ms. Shiavo would have died long ago and there would have been no issue to debate.
I agree at the moment she is still living, but what is life? A plant lives with air and water does it feel if it is denied the air and water that it so desperately needs to live? I think not.
The irony and the tragedy is that the religious Right insists on this science to sustain the life of this tragic woman yet the same Right would deny the science to sustain and in many cases improve or cure the diseases that plague so many in our society today.
For the final Irony the same Right has no problem in executing those that it feels have fallen “below” the standard of human existence as they judge it to be.
Who defines what a human should be?
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 25, 2005 18:59:55 GMT -6
Well, it looks like she's gonna croak. That's a shame, and a dangerous precedent, in my opinion. But at least she'll get her wish and leave a thin corpse......Jake
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Post by Hedo69 on Mar 25, 2005 19:41:58 GMT -6
Dan,
Thank you for your full and honest response. It is a thought provoking and caring post.
Just note up front- I can honestly say that with taking one sentence out, it was in favor of saving space, not taking it out of context. My response was for the whole thought not just the sentence, but I abbreviated it in favor of posting space.
I do believe in the ultimate goodness of people…individuals, but groups of people who call themselves politicians? NO! And would fight tooth and nail if the government became the answer to life or death situations. I think it is a damn shame they have been drug into this one as it is a matter that should have been settled by the husband and ONLY the husband. He, at the beginning of this, tried EVERYTHING possible to bring her back, but it simply could not/cannot happen.
Do I want this to be a way for any family to get rid of an unwanted “burden”. No, but we are only talking about Terri Shaivo. Only Terri. I am not talking bout that little baby that needs oxygen or the mentally retarded man down the road. Dan, I am not a hard hearted person that wants to kill off the unnecessary, but I do feel the need to let those, whose time has come, die.
But to put it into the Star Trek perspective, the quest of the Enterprise. We travel this universe to study, to learn, to advance our understanding of the ultimate meaning of life. But when we come across life that is different, that that we should not intrude or involve ourselves in, we make the difficult choice to not interfere and let the people involved work it out. If I am not mistaken, this was their Prime Directive.
I respectfully disagree Dan.
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Post by danimal on Mar 25, 2005 21:10:45 GMT -6
Dan, Thank you for your full and honest response. It is a thought provoking and caring post. Just note up front- I can honestly say that with taking one sentence out, it was in favor of saving space, not taking it out of context. My response was for the whole thought not just the sentence, but I abbreviated it in favor of posting space. I do believe in the ultimate goodness of people…individuals, but groups of people who call themselves politicians? NO! And would fight tooth and nail if the government became the answer to life or death situations. I think it is a damn shame they have been drug into this one as it is a matter that should have been settled by the husband and ONLY the husband. He, at the beginning of this, tried EVERYTHING possible to bring her back, but it simply could not/cannot happen. Do I want this to be a way for any family to get rid of an unwanted “burden”. No, but we are only talking about Terri Shaivo. Only Terri. I am not talking bout that little baby that needs oxygen or the mentally retarded man down the road. Dan, I am not a hard hearted person that wants to kill off the unnecessary, but I do feel the need to let those, whose time has come, die. But to put it into the Star Trek perspective, the quest of the Enterprise. We travel this universe to study, to learn, to advance our understanding of the ultimate meaning of life. But when we come across life that is different, that that we should not intrude or involve ourselves in, we make the difficult choice to not interfere and let the people involved work it out. If I am not mistaken, this was their Prime Directive. I respectfully disagree Dan. Star Trek is fiction. Star Trek will never happen. The reality is that we are far too self-absorbed to think about the greater good. We have done ,and will continue to do, injustice to our fellow man. I belive in God because I have absolutely no faith in mankind. I belive you are wrong. We are NOT simply talking about Terri Shaivo. I am sorry for beating a dead horse, but I still do not believe that reasonable doubt has been fully established. Things are going far too fast, and that makes this case highly suspicious. Yes, this has been going on for 15 years, but for the better part of those 15 years virtually nothing proactive has been done to help her...the only thing that's been done is to keep her alive, and only minimally at best. Too many unaswered questions. Nurse upon nurse upon nurse has come forward, saying that the husband ruled with such an iron fist that if they did ONE THING out of step from his wishes, they would be fired, and a good many of them were. The most current CT scan of her brain was taken several years ago. What would have been the harm in having a more recent medical examination? Christ, just last weekend I went to the Emergency room because I had chest pains, and ended up spending 2 days in the hospital. I had myself check out, top to bottom. It turned out to be nothing, thank goodness...but what would have been the harm in having her checked out completely? I heard today that once Terri is gone, Mr. Shaivo made certain that she would be IMMEDIATELY cremated and her remains buried in a plot of HIS choosing...not allowing for even the examination of her body. He isn't even allowing her to receive last rites. And all this is backed up by a Judge's order. Doesn't ANY of this seem strange to you? Yes this is all circumstantial evidence, but lets not forget that all the evidence in the Scott Peterson trial was cirumstatial too, and look where he is. Okay, fine. Moot point. Mike wins, Terri dies. Hooray for Mr. Shaivo. He won. He gets away scott free. I think its funny that you talk about Star Trek and its 'understanding of the meaning of Life', yet these 'mysteries' go unanswered. But then who am I to say, right? I basically don't trust humanity anyway.
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IrishEyesGadflyJustMeSomeone
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Post by IrishEyesGadflyJustMeSomeone on Mar 25, 2005 21:43:12 GMT -6
No, living is not living by just laying there with tubes in you to keep you going. But then again, neither is it living if you're so old and senile that you have no sense of reality, where you have to be taken to the bathroom, you have to be fed in order to survive. Is it living if you are so mentally impaired that you cannot live on your own and be self sufficient? Do you see where I'm going? Where do we draw the line? How mentally deficient do you have to be in order to be staved to death? That's what I don't understand. What guidelines are people using? Well, the "line" used to be with the family and the doctors, but thanks to Bush's new legislation, a family can petition Congress to have their case heard in federal courts. As if Congress didn't have enough on their plates! Oh, and about the sancticty of marriage and states rights and no big Government, never mind. And I don't think that the slope is that slippery - the AARP has way too much power for people to go willy nilly unplugging or starving the elderly.
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IrishEyesGadflyJustMeSomeone
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Post by IrishEyesGadflyJustMeSomeone on Mar 25, 2005 21:59:54 GMT -6
First of all, I have so many passwords I can never remember which go with which, so here I am with a big name.
As far as where the line is drawn, back in the day, one got injured and probably died. Nowadays we have all kinds of medical miricles to keep one alive. Thanks to Guest above (NOT me, but would be proud to claim it), my point is made - stem cell research could save countless lives, and improve countless more lives - but the religious right, no, I'm sorry, my mistake, Mr. Bush, on orders from the religious right, has decided that that's not God's will. But keeping someone's body alive 15 years after her soul has already gone to heaven (as I see it, she 'died' when she first went into the coma) IS God's will. Irony, much?
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 25, 2005 22:03:00 GMT -6
Denise, let's get our facts straight. Bush was the FIRST president to allow ANY federal funding for stem cell research. ANY!!! But because he put some restrictions on it (it's called a compromise, as all elected officials must do), all he gets is grief......Jake
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IrishEyesGadflyJustMeSomeone
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Post by IrishEyesGadflyJustMeSomeone on Mar 25, 2005 22:03:09 GMT -6
I am copying and pasting here a very apropo text, I don't just give the website lest someone's delicate sensibilities be offended. Dance, Meat Puppet When Terri Schiavo's life effectively ended 15 years ago, her career as a political and personal football began. The facts of this case are obscured each time Terri Schiavo's family and political crusaders hint at Michael Schiavo's possible involvement in his wife's current state or his possible financial motives for wanting to see her life ended. Let's ignore that Bob and Mary Schindler moved in with Michael Schiavo. Let's ignore that Bob Schindler encouraged his son-in-law to date, saying in testimony in 1993, "I think I said he deserved to start a new life." Let's ignore that Michael Schiavo did seek treatment for his wife, and let's ignore that the Schindlers returned their daughter to a rehabilitation facility after only three weeks because they couldn't deal with her overwhelming needs. Let's ignore that not long after Terri Schiavo lapsed into a living purgatory, Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers sued the doctors who treated her. At the malpractice trial in 1992, Mary Schindler said of her son-in-law, "He is loving, caring. I don't know of any young boy that would be as attentive. ... He's just been unbelievable. And I know without him there is no way I could have survived all this." And while we're busy ignoring those aspects of the case, let's continue to bury our heads by pretending Pinellas-Pasco Judge George Greer never concluded in a 2000 ruling ordering Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube removed that the argument was about money. "It is clear to this court that (the argument) was predicated upon money and the fact that Mr. Schiavo was unwilling to equally divide his ... award with Mr. and Mrs. Schindler," Greer wrote. Michael Schiavo might be a jerk. He might kick kittens and flip off little old ladies driving Buicks. He might wear white after Labor Day and drink cappuccino with his steak dinner. He might even give thanks nightly for the heart attack that allowed him to live like a single man -- such are the high-flying, single-life good times of someone with a live-in girlfriend, two children and a mortgage. But what he isn't, is responsible for whether his wife lives or dies. He handed over that decision to the court system years ago, and his in-laws' beef is with a judicial process that has repeatedly declared their daughter to be in a persistent vegetative state. This is Florida we're talking about, not some blue state reveling in the wholesale slaughter of fetuses and the severely brain damaged. This is a state with "Choose Life" license plates -- a state that plays host to the Holy land Experience without a hint of hipster irony. If Terri Schiavo can't live there, she can't live anywhere. Much is made of the supposed goldmine Terri Schiavo's bed-sore-covered ass spasms upon, but after 15 years of care -- quality or not -- and a prolonged legal battle that goldmine has become little more than a windfall the size of her cerebral cortex. Michael Schiavo is not going to drive away from the hospice in a tricked-out Hummer to his sprawling beachfront mansion, where he and his family will pack their Louis Vuitton bags for a jaunt aboard their private jet to a month-long stay at their Grenada villa. Save for 20-somethings who want to spend the next decade appearing on MTV's "The Gauntlet" and "The Inferno," very few people open up their lives for that many years of public scrutiny for such a paltry amount of money. While Terri Schiavo's family thinks little of bad-mouthing Michael Schiavo in the press -- alluding to an unhappy, abusive marriage that might or might not have ended in attempted strangulation -- few have questioned their relationship with Terri Schiavo. According to court documents, Terri Schiavo's family would keep her alive if she became diabetic and needed a quadruple amputation. They don't sound like particularly loving, sane people. Loving, sane people don't want their family members to live out their days as a torso with a dead-brain container attached to it. When Terri Schiavo's parents look at her, do they see their daughter -- the mobile, sentient being she once was -- or do they see a barely living, breathing "screw you" to the son-in-law they don't appear to have much love for after he didn't split the malpractice settlement with them? When Tom DeLay -- that paragon of ethics from a state that allows PVS patients to have their life support switched off if they're too poor, unphotogenic and politically unconnected -- looks at Terri Schiavo, does he see a middle finger in the face of Democrats who can't win in an emotionally charged case? Does he see money from the dedicated party fringe pouring in? Because when I look at Terri Schiavo, I see a woman whose gasping existence has been stolen for personal and political gain, to further personal and political agendas, and to settle personal and political vendettas. I see a woman who likely led a mediocre, uneventful -- save for being turned into a martyr -- life. I see a woman who, had she not regularly vomited to the point of causing serious medical issues, would have died in her 70s with the highlight of her obituary being that "she had a really great sense of humor." She is not a martyr. She was not destined for great things. She is not a symbol of the Death Is Too Scary to Ponder movement. She is not going to ascend to heaven in a beam of white light sent directly from God when he determines it's "her" time. But what she could do is set a precedent for Congress and the president turning our personal lives -- against our wishes -- into a cynical ploy to pander to an influential voting bloc. While my machine-assisted body can be used as decoration for a middle-aged German artist always on the hunt for the latest fad or as a human tic-tac-toe board at a carnival, I wouldn't look good as a political volleyball. By the way, it is www.misanthropic-bitch.com. I don't agree with everything she says, but the points we differ on don't negate EVERYTHING she says! I love this website - this bitch has cojones!
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 25, 2005 22:11:18 GMT -6
I don't believe that anyone has the right to decide anyone else's DEATH. I will start out by saying I appreciate your opinion. However, folks die every day based on the decision of someone else. Here I am talking about patients in hospitals who have life-support removed. I have as mentioned turned off ventilators keeping people alive. I know of one specific instance where I am fairly certain a husband gave his wife an overdose of morphine to hasten her death......it occured a couple of hours after he asked me what would happen with various doses of the drug. The following is NOT directed at you, Dan, but general comments. I find it odd that "Right-to-Lifers" are almost overwhelmingly fundamentalist Christians (at least in this country). Presumably these folks believe in God, Heaven and all that. Does anyone find it odd that these are the folks who, while professing a belief in Heaven, are the ones who want to keep folks from getting there? As a doctor I recognize that death is a part of life. I accept it, and accept that there is nothing I can do about it. It is my honest opinion that right-to-lifers and fundamentalist Christians deep down in are afraid that God and Heaven DON'T exist, hence their irrational acts in support of "life" such as is going on outside the hospice where Terri Shiavo is. If they truly believed, they wouldn't be so lunatical about life, as they would realize in death comes eternal life. That seems to fly over the heads of some of these half-brained idiots. To wit, breaking news says some moron in NC has been arrested soliciting the killing of Michael Shiavo, making sure he suffers as much as possible before he dies. No doubt this idiot is a right-to-lifer with just a wee bit more brain cells working than Terri Shiavo has. Moveover, another idiot here locally was arrested trying to steal a gun in order to, I guess, shoot his way into the hospice where Terri is so he can give her water. At least that was the report. These are good Christian folks, no doubt! Bottom line is I believe in God and Heaven and I've yet to hear a rational argument to convince me that Terri Shiavo's soul is better off suffering the Hell that is her body and not in the Kingdom of Heaven. Could someone, ANYONE, please tell me why she is better off alive than dead? I'd really like to know that! ..............Bob
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 25, 2005 22:18:35 GMT -6
By the way, it is www.misanthropic-bitch.com. I don't agree with everything she says, but the points we differ on don't negate EVERYTHING she says! I love this website - this bitch has cojones! FUCKING OUTSTANDING![/size] Go't DAMN Irish, you have hit the nail on the head and pointed out WHY we Republicans have a SERIOUS PROBLEM on our hands with this case. Not to mention how we support STATE'S RIGHTS and keeping the GUV'MENT out of our lives. Sweetie, can I sing you a love song again? ;D Storm can watch! ...........Bob
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Post by danimal on Mar 26, 2005 7:55:26 GMT -6
[/size] Go't DAMN Irish, you have hit the nail on the head and pointed out WHY we Republicans have a SERIOUS PROBLEM on our hands with this case. Not to mention how we support STATE'S RIGHTS and keeping the GUV'MENT out of our lives. Sweetie, can I sing you a love song again? ;D Storm can watch! ...........Bob[/quote] I never did like blogs. They tend to encourage the 'legend in my own mind' mindset.
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Post by Tex on Mar 26, 2005 8:14:55 GMT -6
Anonymity doesn't encourage being taken seriously.
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Post by danimal on Mar 26, 2005 8:31:38 GMT -6
Anonymity doesn't encourage being taken seriously. Thats why I prefer message boards, and why I always use my real name on them. Don't get me wrong; its gotten me into a heap of trouble on occaision, but I find that personally, I sleep better at night. Besides, as far as rants go, no one does them better than Dennis Miller.
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Post by danimal on Mar 26, 2005 8:45:25 GMT -6
Another thing about blogs is that they're only opinions and can be easily countered: A case for Criminal Investigation of Michael Schiavo: 1) Nurses' testimony: Heidi Law, Carla Sauer-Iyer, Carolyn Johnson have been ignored and dismissed without hearing; each testified that Michael was abusive to Terri and may have attempted to kill her by insulin injection and attempts to induce pneumonia by turning the thermostat in her room to 64 degrees. 2) Michael Baden, top forensic pathologist in country and interviewed on Fox News National Television broadcast October 25, 2003 on Terri's bone scan and injuries states that: a) Terri's injuries are not consistent with a heart attack; no cardiac evidence to support it b) Extremely rare for potassium imbalance on woman her age and in her good health c) Injuries are consistent with severe trauma possibly caused by a beating d) The injuries in medical records warrant an immediate investigation 3) Dr. William Hammesfahr, Nobel prize nominee and neurologist testified that Terri's neck injuries are consistent with only one type of injury: that of strangulation. 4) Terri's doctor, Dr. Gambone resigned; he had previously testified Terri would die within a few days of starvation/dehydration. Terri has an obvious will to live. 5) Michael has enlisted the services of a new doctor, Stanton Tripodis, who has 5 malpractice suits against him. Clearly, Michael is attempting to provide sub-standard care for his wife. Case no. 97007946C1 filed 11-25-97 Case no. 94003739C1 filed 6-27-94 Case no. 95000873C1 filed 2-14-95 Case no. 96001434C1 filed 3-6-96 Case no. 98002289C1 filed 4-7-98 6) Michael is committing adultery by living with another woman who has already born one child with another on the way, thereby creating an obvious conflict of interest as guardian. 7) Michael has committed both perjury (2 counts) and insurance fraud by promising to provide care and therapy for his wife in exchange for the court award of 1.2 million dollars in 1993. No care has ever been provided to Terri. 8) Michael Schiavo has also prevented Terri from undergoing a barium swallow test, a procedure necessary to ascertain the consistency of foods able to be taken by mouth. 9) Co-conspirator George J. Felos combined and conspired with Michael Schiavo to arrange for Terri's "free" stay at Hospice Woodside as part of an "exit protocol" designed to advance Felos' self-perceived messianic mission of "helping" incapacitated people to die by categorizing them as "terminal," warehousing them, and depriving them of therapy and rehabilitation services. (Attorney Felos is Director of Florida Right to Die and has testified that he can ascertain a person's desire to die by "looking into their eyes and letting their spirit speak directly to him") 10) Investigate Insurance company established in Jan 2001 at the home of Michael Schiavo and his girlfriend/fiancee Jody Centonze. (Jerger and Centonze Insurnace Agency Inc.) Michael is listed on the Board of Directors for the corporation. Note: Insurance is deliberately misspelled in the State of Florida Corporate filing, possibly to avoid investigation. 11) Michael continues to deny Terri the right to receive Holy Communion as part of her Catholic and civil rights. found at www.rense.com
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Post by DT on Mar 26, 2005 13:48:49 GMT -6
I'll choose the Florida Courts opinion over rense.com. For that matter, I'll take any state courts opinion over rense.com. edited to add even though I don't care for Rove. I thought what a crock of shit. www.rense.com/general63/rove.htm
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 26, 2005 15:07:24 GMT -6
Rense.com The National Enquirer of the Internet. What a fucking waste of human energy. Joe.
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Post by danimal on Mar 26, 2005 16:14:47 GMT -6
I will start out by saying I appreciate your opinion. However, folks die every day based on the decision of someone else. Here I am talking about patients in hospitals who have life-support removed. I have as mentioned turned off ventilators keeping people alive. I know of one specific instance where I am fairly certain a husband gave his wife an overdose of morphine to hasten her death......it occured a couple of hours after he asked me what would happen with various doses of the drug. Then what the FUCK are we waiting for? Why don't we just give the woman a lethal injection and be done with it? Do it NOW. You all have all but said there's nobody home in that brain of hers. Not only that, youse guys don't even think her SOUL is in that body anymore? What the fuck are we waiting for? Kill her and be done with it! Shut down that body...all its doing is taking up valuable bed space and wasting precious air. Or have I got that wrong too?
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Post by RumAndCoke on Mar 26, 2005 16:15:56 GMT -6
Well, it looks like she's gonna croak. That's a shame, and a dangerous precedent, in my opinion.......Jake Jake This kinda stuff takes place everyday in every hospital, nursing home, hospice all over the world. This is not an isolated case. This is not something NEW. Listen to Bob, he speaks the truth. I have worked in Canadian hospitals for 16 years and it goes down here just the way Bob describes it going down in the USA. The part of Teri that makes her "Teri" left the bulding 15 years ago. I firmly believe (read OPINION here) that her soul left her body when her cortex died, and her corpse has been artificially kept alive needlessly for 15 years. That's not Teri lying there in that bed. That's her empty body. I firmly believe that she's been up there in heaven laughing over all the fuss for quite some time now. Anyone in health care or that has watched a treasured family member die can tell you about the exact point in the person's protracted demise that they witnessed the soul depart from the body. It's a visual and a spiritual thing. It's not a scientific thing, but I'm pretty sure it is the point when the cortex finally shuts down or gives out. The only reason that this case made the papers is because there was a nasty battle over the decision. It didn't make the papers because some doctors decided to let someone die for the first time in medical history. That shit goes on every day. It's a compassionate decision. The cortex is dead. The person has left the building. Sometimes the most compassionate decisions are also the most difficult ones. I wish her family peace.
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Post by danimal on Mar 26, 2005 16:26:30 GMT -6
I understand that Terri is Catholic. I am told that one of the tradtions in that faith is to be given last rites before death.
As I understand it, the compassionate Mr. Schaivo is not even allowing her to have last rites.
But then again, maybe that was included in the last wishes that Mr. Schaivo heard her say.
Maybe Terri said "Hey Mike, if I croak, don't even worry about that Cathiolic Bullshit...just barbacue my ass and dump my ashes someplace, ok?"
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 26, 2005 16:33:10 GMT -6
Then what the FUCK are we waiting for? Why don't we just give the woman a lethal injection and be done with it? Do it NOW. You all have all but said there's nobody home in that brain of hers. Not only that, youse guys don't even think her SOUL is in that body anymore? I personally would have no problem with injecting the lady with enough IV potassium to stop her heart. That will never happen, however. The right-to-lifers would shit in their pants and go on a freekin' rampage. As far as her soul is concerned, I hope God has taken it to Heaven and she hasn't had to endure the HELL of an existence that her been her "life" for the past 15 years. I don't know about you Danimal, but I believe my God is compassionate and doesn't allow someone to suffer due to the shortsightedness of those who can not accept reality, but DEMAND they and everyone else live in a fantasy-land where by some miracle a missing cerebral cortex that houses higher cortical function will magically grow back. Actually, I'm beginning to wonder if Terri doesn't have more of a brain than her parents and that MORON Randall Terry. What a FREEKIN' IDIOT he is! Look out folks! Terri is going to DIE soon and ALL HELL is going to break lose from these MORON right-to-lifers. BATTAN DOWN the hatches! ................Bob
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 26, 2005 16:42:07 GMT -6
Another thing about blogs is that they're only opinions and can be easily countered: A case for Criminal Investigation of Michael Schiavo: Danimal, there is so much BULLSHIT here that I don't even know where to begin. So I'll just say one thing. Show me those folks who are mentioned in your post as supporting the right for Terri to live, and I'll show you someone who is a right-to-lifer. That includes several of the docs and nurses who have provided "testimony." These idiots all have an agenda. Those who don't have an agenda and simply see things objectively see a lady in a persistent (hmmm.....15 yrs long enough for "persistent" or maybe we need 16?) vegetative state who has lost much of her cerebral cortex and has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting better. Some folks just can't handle the truth. I see that as THEIR problem! ...................Bob
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