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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 18, 2005 12:28:54 GMT -6
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 18, 2005 13:52:54 GMT -6
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Post by DT on Mar 18, 2005 15:13:56 GMT -6
Uh Huh, I agree with you JD. If your bound to a bed and a machine to keep you going. Bottom line. You are dead. Looks like the mom and dad won't let go and stired alot of other folks up on their band wagon.
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 18, 2005 17:32:26 GMT -6
Terri "lives" in my neck of the woods and this issue is something that really gets me going. Rhonda has actually replaced her feeding tube on at least one occasion and one of her partners actually replaced it "on orders" of Gov. Bush.
Several thoughts.........
CT scan reveals 1/2 of her brain is gone. No amount of wishful thinking, hoping or praying is going to ch-ch-change that.
Her "life" ended 15 years ago. It ain't gonna get any better. Those who argue folks have come out'a comas after many years ignore the fact that those folks were the victim of TRAUMA to the brain, not an extended period of no blood flow. Brain injury from trauma is different than when your heart stops. Folks like Teri don't magically wake up.
But the real issue I find most interesting, is those who claim to be religious, believe in God and presumably believe in the Glory of Heaven are the very idiots who fight tooth and nail to keep Terri in the Purgatory of Hell that is her present life, preventing her from joining others in the Glory of God.
Just why is that? It makes no sense.
Anyone who TRULY believes in God and Heaven cannot begin to believe Terri is better off alive than dead.
Some idiot on the radio today said "we wouldn't starve a dog!" He was right. We'd shoot the dog to put it out of his misery.
I have personally "pulled the plug" on many patients who had no hope of recovery. To some, I've committed murder.
I think those folks are much better off BECAUSE of what I did, and I believe Terri will be much better off in Heaven than the HELL she currently is in.
...........Bob
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 20, 2005 1:26:31 GMT -6
I don't believe this!!! ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png) The United States Congress has come up with a special bill to try to keep this poor woman alive. That is not their job. ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png) They are going to hold a special Sunday Session just for this. We have major issues in this country today and hell they will go on a 2 week vacation before they will look at something else, but this they will work on Sunday. ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Let the poor woman die with some form of dignity. It is time that people in this country and or Government realize that Euthanasia is okay. I am not a religious person, but this evening I pray that she maybe able to go in peace and rest. Joe.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Mar 20, 2005 8:02:54 GMT -6
I agree with everything that has been said here in this thread so far. This poor woman should be allowed her wishes, to die with some shred of dignity.
I only find it tragic that those who profess to stand for the "dignity of life", from the President down through the "grass roots" of the religious wing of the Republican Party who are opposing this action, DO NOT SEE the indignity they put this woman in.
Opening up the US Congress to interfere with the personal lives of this family is so far beyond what the founding fathers intended for this government as to make a mockery of the American Revolution.
A generation ago this woman would have died, what is really scary is, what will they be able to do in another generation. If Congress wants to do something useful, maybe they should modernize these laws. Researching THAT ought to keep them out of trouble for a while.
Let Terry die.
Gordon
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Post by DT on Mar 20, 2005 9:34:42 GMT -6
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Post by Captain Gary on Mar 20, 2005 9:49:37 GMT -6
DT, you are right.
I voted for Bush, but certainly don't consider myself a Conservative Christian.
I guess what it comes down to is you pick the side that holds views and values that match the MAJORITY of your own views.
I certainly don't agree with what is going on with respect to this fiasco, but in the long run, the things that affect me day in and day out, I'm better off with the Conservatives running things.
Gary
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 20, 2005 10:44:55 GMT -6
I guess I'm the lone voice in the wilderness here. Killing this poor woman would be an act of murder. Here's why:
1) There is NO evidence that she wanted to "die with dignity", no living will, no documents, no nothing. In the absence of someone specifically and legally saying "kill me", you DON'T DO IT. That should be obvious.
2) There is no dignity in being dead anyway. That's the easy way out. There is dignity in struggle and adversity. Look at the Pope.
3) With all due respect to Dr. Bob, doctors don't know SHIT. They are empiricists who muddle along as best they can by trying stuff and seeing what works, but they have no understanding of fundamental principles. They never know what will happen to a patient a few days down the road.
I'f I'm ever in that condition, keep me plugged in! It's my coma or vegetative state or whatever, and I'm going to enjoy it. What the hell, I'm not paying for it.....Jake
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 20, 2005 13:33:12 GMT -6
DT, you are right. I voted for Bush, but certainly don't consider myself a Conservative Christian. Gary I agree with Gary on his statement. Bush and Congress have no right doing this and I am totally against it. The Republicans are mostly behind this with a few Democrats. However the conservative side still has more to offer me than the Dark Side. Joe.
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 20, 2005 13:40:46 GMT -6
I guess I'm the lone voice in the wilderness here. Killing this poor woman would be an act of murder. Here's why: 1) There is NO evidence that she wanted to "die with dignity", no living will, no documents, no nothing. In the absence of someone specifically and legally saying "kill me", you DON'T DO IT. That should be obvious. 2) There is no dignity in being dead anyway. That's the easy way out. There is dignity in struggle and adversity. Look at the Pope. Jake old man I have to respectfully disagree with you this time. It would not be murder it would be a blessing. Yes she did not leave a will or trust of any other document but that whats her husband is for. I know if it was me, Denice would make the best decision for me if I was unable to. In this case yes there is dignity in being dead. It sure as hell beats laying around in a bed craping on yourself, unable to feed yourself, or hold a conversation with anyone. Everyone is entitled to how they want to be treaded medically and if you wish to be plugged in my friend go for it. That's you right and damn well make sure you have it in writing. My self I don't want any machine keeping me alive. I prefer to go out unplugged. Joe.
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 20, 2005 17:12:21 GMT -6
So Congress is supposed to vote at 12:01AM or something like that.
Rhonda is "on call" and would be the one called if they order the feeding tube back in.
We both believe this poor woman should be allowed to die and I'm actually considering, if the call comes, to going in with Rhonda and announcing that Rhonda refuses to replace the tube. Of course, after a bit, they would find someone else. As a physician, Rhonda doesn't have to do what she considers ethically wrong.
Do you guys want to see us on the national news? What do you think?
............Bob
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 20, 2005 17:43:19 GMT -6
Do you guys want to see us on the national news? What do you think? ............Bob Go for it Bob, but with Congress involved Rhonda my be looking from the inside out. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) Joe.
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Post by That English Guy on Mar 20, 2005 18:04:27 GMT -6
Do you guys want to see us on the national news? Make that international, the story made our evening news today. Simon
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 20, 2005 18:08:50 GMT -6
Make that international, the story made our evening news today. Simon Simon what is the feeling about this in your country ? Should she be allowed to go on or should she be keep alive? Joe.
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Post by That English Guy on Mar 20, 2005 18:24:17 GMT -6
To the best of my knowledge today was the first time the story has been on the news and it was just reported as fact without any debate so it is hard to say what the feeling here would be. We get cases like this of our own though, and generally people are moved by the plight of those who wish to end their own suffering, or that of their loved ones. Euthanasia is illegal here, but it is legal in Holland which you can sail to in 5 - 6 hours from a port about 15 minutes from us. There was a recent case where a guy took his terminally ill wife to Holland for doctors there to end her life before her suffering became worse. He was arrested as an accomplice to murder on his return, but charges were not brought and he was released. The official position seems to be that you may not take your own life, or help another to do so, but the authorities are reluctant to prosecute because to do so would fly in the face of public opinion which is generally sympathetic in cases such as this. When they have prosecuted the punishment usually seems to be a token gesture, such as a suspended sentence or probation.
Simon
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 20, 2005 19:16:35 GMT -6
Go for it Bob, but with Congress involved Rhonda my be looking from the inside out. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) Joe. Funny Joe!! Could be! However, the lawyer in me knows that Congress does not have the authority to do what they are trying to do, to get a Federal Judge to rule on this. There is no basis for this to be heard in Federal court. The Supreme Court, if it had to, would find what Congress did to be unconstitutional......Just like the Florida Supreme Court found "Terri's Law" (that the Florida State Legislature passed) to be unconstitutional. I'm wondering what color tie to wear for the press conference! <chuckle> Actually, I now realize that won't happen as Congress is only voting on whether to have the case reviewed by Federal Court, so Rhonda won't likely get a call to reinsert the tube tonight. I guess I'll get to sleep the whole night afterall! ;D ..............Bob
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 20, 2005 19:42:27 GMT -6
Remember, folks, she NEVER said she wanted to die. These are other folks who have decided she is better off dead (or that they themselves are better off with her dead). I'd hate to have those kind of loved ones around me......Jake
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 20, 2005 19:51:07 GMT -6
Remember, folks, she NEVER said she wanted to die. These are other folks who have decided she is better off dead (or that they themselves are better off with her dead). I'd hate to have those kind of loved ones around me......Jake With all due respect Jake, Terri stopped being Terri 15 years ago. Like I mentioned before, a CT scan of her brain reveals ONE-HALF of her brain is GONE! No amount of wishful thinking or prayer will ch-ch-change that! Though I believe in God, I don't wear my religion on my sleave. However, I believe there is something MUCH BETTER waiting for Terri in Heaven than the PURGATORY OF HELL that is her current existence. Of course, maybe you don't believe in Heaven, in which case your opinion makes sense. Unfortunately, you are WRONG! ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) .............Bob ;D (who just realized the Federal Judges are on call 24 hours a day, so if one orders the tube back in tonight, we STILL might make that press conference!)
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 20, 2005 20:00:45 GMT -6
There was a recent case where a guy took his terminally ill wife to Holland for doctors there to end her life before her suffering became worse. He was arrested as an accomplice to murder on his return, but charges were not brought and he was released. Damn! I have personally shut off ventilators keeping folks alive, on several occasions. I have spoken at length with patients who have taken themselves off dialysis in order to die. I once had a lady who required dialysis say she no longer wished to live this way. I set up a morphine pump for her to control her pain. Her husband called wanting to know what amount of morphine was safe to give. An hour later he called to say she had passed. I'm sure he used the dose I told him would not be safe to give. Bottom line is this stuff goes on EVERY DAY! Terri Shiavo has been made a political issue, nothing less. And it SUCKS! ................Bob ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png)
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 20, 2005 20:30:06 GMT -6
....Like I mentioned before, a CT scan of her brain reveals ONE-HALF of her brain is GONE! No amount of wishful thinking or prayer will ch-ch-change that!.... So what? She can still live a long and useful life as a liberal......Jake
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 20, 2005 20:33:02 GMT -6
Remember, folks, she NEVER said she wanted to die. These are other folks who have decided she is better off dead (or that they themselves are better off with her dead). I'd hate to have those kind of loved ones around me......Jake Jake sometimes a person like Terri can't make that decision them self and someone in this case here husband has to. I take this from first hand experience. 12 years ago my grandmother (on my dad's side) had a stroke.She was 84 yeras old. It left her more or less in the same condition as Terri. The Doctor told my dad (his is an only child) that they could keep her alive with a feeding tube and other stuff for a untold period of time, or just let he go and do nothing. After a family meeting (my parents, my wife and I and my brother and his wife) he decided that she would not want to live this way. The final decision was made by my Father but he made the decision to let he go. Her age had nothing to do with it. It was her condtion and that she had no chance of recovery. Maybe sometimes the people left are making the decision for their own benefit, instead of the person suffering. In this case I don't think so. Believing in God has nothing to do with this issue as far as I am concerned. There are times when it is better to let someone go and stop their suffering. Joe.
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 20, 2005 21:06:24 GMT -6
Rhonda has been watching this and is fit to be tied!
If something happens tonight, your Hedo friends are going to be front and center!
............Bob
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 20, 2005 21:19:01 GMT -6
Rhonda has been watching this and is fit to be tied! If something happens tonight, your Hedo friends are going to be front and center! ............Bob About time that someone from the Medical field does! ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png) Bob wear the "Red Tie", it shows strength and power. Let us know the name of the Federal prision you will be in I'll bake you a cake!!!!!! ;D ;D Joe.
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Post by That English Guy on Mar 21, 2005 6:27:24 GMT -6
Euthanasia is illegal here, but it is legal in Holland which you can sail to in 5 - 6 hours from a port about 15 minutes from us. There was a recent case where a guy took his terminally ill wife to Holland for doctors there to end her life before her suffering became worse. Correction, it was Switzerland, where euthanasia is legal the same as in Holland, Sweden and Belguim, where he took her to a clinic run by the Dignitas group in Zurich news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3623874.stmThis is the case I was referring to news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4067939.stmAs I said previously, I believe the police did questioned the husband on his return but did not press charges. Simon
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 22, 2005 8:24:21 GMT -6
A Federal Judge this morning has said NO to the replacement of Terri's feeding tube.
Looks like all of Congress's game playing did not pay off for them.
Joe.
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Post by Bluejay on Mar 22, 2005 8:34:28 GMT -6
I think it has paid off for them, Joe...it has made the Republican party and the President more popular than ever with their primary patrons -the religious right.
If *any* good can come from this desperately sad situation, it will be in the form of more people in perfect health rushing out to write up living wills. I certainly plan to do so.
bluejay
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 22, 2005 8:41:09 GMT -6
I think it has paid off for them, Joe...it has made the Republican party and the President more popular than ever with their primary patrons -the religious right. bluejay Well I am a memeber of the Republican Party and they certainly did not make any points with me on this issue. I don't think they made to many points with the religious right either. In a poll I in seen last night on MSNBC it said the 79% of the people polled disagreed with what they did. I am sure that some of the religious right is in that figure to, except for the rabid ones. Joe.
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Post by That English Guy on Mar 22, 2005 8:43:02 GMT -6
If *any* good can come from this desperately sad situation, it will be in the form of more people in perfect health rushing out to write up living wills. I certainly plan to do so. You're quite right Bluejay, and the lesson here is that we should all plan for what should happen to us in the event that we end up in a condition like Terri's to save our families from going through what hers currently are. Simon
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Post by DT on Mar 22, 2005 16:12:10 GMT -6
I think it has paid off for them, Joe...it has made the Republican party and the President more popular than ever with their primary patrons -the religious right. If *any* good can come from this desperately sad situation, it will be in the form of more people in perfect health rushing out to write up living wills. I certainly plan to do so. bluejay Made me take note that a living will needs to go on the things to do list.
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