Dr. I. Esquire, a question........

[Hedo69]

HOPE is not a plan - says this typical, bitter white boy praying to Jesus while cleaning his Glock-Dr. Bob

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; 1 Th 1:3

For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? 1Th 2:19

Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 2Th 2:16

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope; 1Ti 1:1

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Tts 2:13

Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1Pe 1:3

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 1Pe 1:13

Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee. Psa 33:22

Bob, do you think Jesus will answer you that indeed, Hope is not a plan?

You know I am not a believer in the One True God theory, but you claim to be. How do you reconcile all the contradictions and still go to bed holy and clean? Do you really feel Jesus thinks HOPE is a waste of time?

(It's been to darn long since we've had a good religious discussion and your siggy just screams for it)

[Chicago Jake]

C'mon, Deb. There are two great flaws inherent in any argument based on scriptural quotations:

1) First, all combatants have to agree that the scripture IS the one true word. Not everyone believes this, not even all dedicated Christian believers.

2) There is enough verbiage in the Bible that you can find multiple quotes supporting just about any viewpoint you could hope to support, many of which contradict each other.

[Hedo69]

Hell Jake, now I have to start deeply considering what I post? I am just working on getting to 1000 posts and his siggy just tickled me being sooooo contradictory to what I understand Jesus to be. (Not that he (Jesus) couldn't have some meaness going on, but he is definitely all about hope)

Deb, just doing my part to stir the pot.

[Ardbeg... innit]

Deb,

Dont let Jake intimidate you into stopping the stirring.. carry on.

[Chicago Jake]

I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting! Just doing my own bit to keep the posting alive......Jake (who believes it takes two to dialog)

[New Mama]

I thought Jesus was all about faith not hope.

[Chicago Jake]

I used to know these three sisters named Faith, Hope, and Charity, but that's another story.......Jake

[Hedo69]

Anita, does one exclude the other? I think he was about both with a bit of charity thrown in.

[New Mama]

Faith does not exclude hope, but they are two different meanings to me.

Having faith means you believe its true. Hope is ....well ... just hoping it's true. I believe Jesus was a teacher of faith in God not hope in God, but maybe I miss your point of debate.

[Hedo69]

Hope and Faith are not interchangeable words, nor am I using them as such. I can come up with a whole nuther bunch of Faith passages if you like. BUT even though they have different meanings, they are still very alike and can walk hand in hand happily. From my reading of the Bible, Jesus is about both.

hope (hp)
v. hoped, hop·ing, hopes
v.intr.
1. To wish for something with expectation of its fulfillment.
2. Archaic To have confidence; trust.
v.tr.
1. To look forward to with confidence or expectation: We hope that our children will be successful.
2. To expect and desire. See Synonyms at expect.
n.
1. A wish or desire accompanied by confident expectation of its fulfillment.
2. Something that is hoped for or desired: Success is our hope.
3. One that is a source of or reason for hope: the team's only hope for victory.
4. often Hope Christianity The theological virtue defined as the desire and search for a future good, difficult but not impossible to attain with God's help.
5. Archaic Trust; confidence.

faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

[DT]

Faith and hope work hand and hand. (together)

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1"

Faith is a substance. Something tangible that you could actually see. For example, if you were praying for a healing, faith would be the substance of that healing. A healing that you could both feel and see.

Hope is required before faith can manifest itself into a healing. Hope is a “blueprint” based on God’s Word. Faith will then manifest a substance to match your hope, (the blueprint) in your spirit in every detail. (in this case a healing)


psssst..... Sunday School 101.

[Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III]

Jan 26, 2009 1:28:27 GMT -6 Hedo69 said:

Bob, do you think Jesus will answer you that indeed, Hope is not a plan?

Gosh, I had forgotten that was still in my sig. Time to ch-ch-change, eh?? ;D

The "hope" that I referred to has nothing to do with God, but the appointed "Messiah" now occupying the White House. I put that there soon after he stupidly claimed Middle American clung to it's religion and guns for what Obama perceived were poorly defined reasons, at least in his mind.

Obama ran on a ticket devoid of substance, but his "hope" that he could bring "ch-ch-change." Never in my lifetime has someone so short on experience (sorry guys, but even Palin has WAY more executive experience than Obama, not that that matters any more) ridden a way to the White House made up of such lack of substance; as if he was simply painting a picture of what he thought we should have with no fundamental building blocks in place to even begin to put down a true path to what he wants.

Thus my "hope" is not a plan theme. I can "HOPE" all day long, but that don't make it happen.

I'm also not a big fan of quoting the Bible, as one can find quotes to support most anything you want. Religion is built on FAITH, something quite different than hope. While many people might hope that God is real and other that he is not, those who have FAITH don't need "hope," as it's simply not necessary.

I certainly HOPE that Obama succeeds and restores respect to this country worldwide, but I don't have much Faith that he will be successful at doing that while protecting us from terrorists at the same time. Just my take, nothing more.

IOW, the saying you quoted has little to do with religion but more to do with Obama and his intellectual arrogance that mocked the bread and butter of this country.

..................Bob

[DT]

Religion is built on FAITH, something quite different than hope.

In the spiritual realm, I see hope as God's blueprint for mankind.

Faith without hope is dead. So I disagree.

[Hedo69]

Bob, it's quite certain I knew you were referring to Obama's "Hope" in your signature. However, did it make you think just a bit when you were typing it up whether Jesus would agree to what you were saying if indeed you were praying those words to him?

I still go with my stance that Hope and Faith go hand in hand. Like DT said, one without the other is incomplete.

OTOH, here are two of the types of believers I have come to know.

One has faith that his/her beliefs are real and that gives them hope.

The second hopes his/her beliefs are real and that gives them faith.

Make sense?

[♥ COVID-19♥]

This is simple -- the difference is basically this: Hope has feathers, faith doesn't.

Hope is the Thing with Feathers

Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all,

And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.

I've heard it in the chilliest land
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me.

-- Emily Dickinson

[Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III]

Jan 27, 2009 5:38:02 GMT -6 Hedo69 said:

Make sense?

I see what you're trying to say, but if one's faith is dependent on their "hope" that they are right, then they simply don't have the faith that they think they do and they need to reexamine why not.

IOW, they are simply existing on "hope" without faith. Their understanding has not progressed to the point of faith.

Maybe they need to read their Bible more often?? ;D

[Hedo69]

Jan 27, 2009 14:13:38 GMT -6 Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III said:

Jan 27, 2009 5:38:02 GMT -6 Hedo69 said:

Make sense?

I see what you're trying to say, but if one's faith is dependent on their "hope" that they are right, then they simply don't have the faith that they think they do and they need to reexamine why not.

IOW, they are simply existing on "hope" without faith. Their understanding has not progressed to the point of faith.

Maybe they need to read their Bible more often?? ;D

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[DT]

I am just working on getting to 1000 posts

Whoo Hooo!! Youse almost there. (seven more to go)

psssst..... Something non-spirtual is telling me to go put a sawbuck on number 7.

I used to know these three sisters named Faith, Hope, and Charity, but that's another story.......Jake

Three of Rosey Palm's five daughters?

pssssst..... I still know her and her daughters intimately.

Faith does not exclude hope, but they are two different meanings to me.

Having faith means you believe its true. Hope is ....well ... just hoping it's true. I believe Jesus was a teacher of faith in God not hope in God, but maybe I miss your point of debate.

I'm in line with your thinking. Jesus was a teacher of hope to have faith in God.

psssst.... Passes the Bong to Bob. (I hope he stays in rotation and have faith he will puff puff pass pass)

[Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III]

Jan 27, 2009 16:57:21 GMT -6 Hedo69 said:

Eggxactly!©®

Now that we're done with the mental masturbation, take your clothes off and LIE DOWN!! ;D ;D

[Hedo69]

Better watch out Dr. Bob, that sorta sweet talk will go to a woman's.....uhh........head.