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Post by Alice on Sept 30, 2008 6:33:20 GMT -6
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Post by Chicago Jake on Sept 30, 2008 9:16:12 GMT -6
Yikes! The kinsfolks said, move away from there. Time to move to Pixley or Mt. Pilot.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Sept 30, 2008 9:25:08 GMT -6
It's so predictable when they have a murder-suicide IN THAT ORDER! If you *really* want to make headlines, do it in reverse -- a suicide-murder! Now *that's* news, baby!
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Sept 30, 2008 10:48:31 GMT -6
It's so predictable when they have a murder-suicide IN THAT ORDER! If you *really* want to make headlines, do it in reverse -- a suicide-murder! Now *that's* news, baby! Kamikazes and Suicide bombers do it all the time, well, by all the time I mean once each  Zilla (stupid brain, coming up with ways to commit suicide in such a way that you definitely murder an intended victim as well) |
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Sept 30, 2008 11:04:14 GMT -6
Well, technically, no -- those would be simultaneous deaths. The suicide bomber is taking out him/herself at the same time as they are taking out everyone else.
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Sept 30, 2008 11:16:19 GMT -6
Well, technically, no -- those would be simultaneous deaths. The suicide bomber is taking out him/herself at the same time as they are taking out everyone else. I disagree, they are closer to the blast/explosive than everyone else, so even if it is by milliseconds, they are killing themselves prior to the murder victims. Zilla (who also thought of injecting poison into the toothpaste tube of the victim, and then commiting suicide, but that seemed way too complex and not as sure of a thing) |
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Sept 30, 2008 11:20:17 GMT -6
But just because they are closer to the blast, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are the first to die.
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Sept 30, 2008 11:25:22 GMT -6
But just because they are closer to the blast, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are the first to die. True, but odds are certainly in their favor, and the intent is there. Zilla (who is amused that I am the only one so far who is willing to take you up on this challenge) |
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Sept 30, 2008 11:38:14 GMT -6
True, but odds are certainly in their favor, and the intent is there. Yes, the odds are in their favor, but unless you can prove the order of death, you can't know for certain that it was a suicide-murder. And as far as the intent is concerned, exactly what was the intent? If it was the intent to kill him/herself along with the group of people, then yes, the intent was there. If the intent was to kill the others *then* kill yourself, then the intent was not there. If the intent was to kill yourself, *then* kill the others, then the intent was also not there. |
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Post by Irish Stu on Sept 30, 2008 12:04:30 GMT -6
This thread is killing me.
Simon
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Sept 30, 2008 12:08:58 GMT -6
My evil plan of a murder-suicide is working. Now, if I can only find someone to commit suicide on ... hmmm ...
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Sept 30, 2008 12:11:33 GMT -6
Yes, the odds are in their favor, but unless you can prove the order of death, you can't know for certain that it was a suicide-murder. Frequently the time between murder/suicide is so short that medical science cannot *prove* the order of the death, and the only reason it is a murder/suicide is because it is very difficult to strangle your victim after you have blown your brains out with a gun. Indeed, depending on the choice of murder, it is very possible that you could slit the victim's throat, blow your own brain out, and the victim would still be alive and slowly having their life drain away. And as far as the intent is concerned, exactly what was the intent? If it was the intent to kill him/herself along with the group of people, then yes, the intent was there. If the intent was to kill the others *then* kill yourself, then the intent was not there. If the intent was to kill yourself, *then* kill the others, then the intent was also not there. Again, I disagree. If a husband ties up his estranged wife and children, straps a batch of explosives around his chest, stands 2 feet away from them, and then detonates - his intent could very well be to kill himself and *then* kill the others, that way he wouldn't have to see their deaths (or depending on his beliefs, to die and go to heaven before those other deaths are assigned to his soul). Zilla (who also thought of a very elaborate scheme that involved a guillotine, but acknowledges that would be newsworthy not because of the suicide/murder time line of the murder but due to its bizarre nature in general) |
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Sept 30, 2008 13:24:14 GMT -6
Frequently the time between murder/suicide is so short that medical science cannot *prove* the order of the death, and the only reason it is a murder/suicide is because it is very difficult to strangle your victim after you have blown your brains out with a gun. So, in other words, you concede that it's possible. If a husband ties up his estranged wife and children, straps a batch of explosives around his chest, stands 2 feet away from them, and then detonates - his intent could very well be to kill himself and *then* kill the others, that way he wouldn't have to see their deaths (or depending on his beliefs, to die and go to heaven before those other deaths are assigned to his soul). But that's my point -- the intent isn't clear. It could've been a science experiment; he could've lost a bet. You don't know. |
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Sept 30, 2008 14:43:10 GMT -6
So, in other words, you concede that it's possible. Certainly I concede it is possible, since I am the one arguing that it isn't as newsworthy as you think to commit suicide/murder instead of murder/suicide. But that's my point -- the intent isn't clear. It could've been a science experiment; he could've lost a bet. You don't know. True, but you know me, I will try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. In this case, benefit of the doubt equates to they were intending a suicide/murder. I'm standing by my premise that suicide/murder, while probably not as easy as murder/suicide, is not so much more difficult to be worthier of news reporting. Zilla (who is a firm believer in "I can't be the only asshole to think this way") |
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Sept 30, 2008 14:55:28 GMT -6
... I will try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. In this case, benefit of the doubt equates to they were intending a suicide/murder. It doesn't necessarily have to equate to that. You're *choosing* to equate it to that. There's the possible scenario of the double suicide performed by the same person, as in a Dr. Kevorkian "assisted suicide" scenario. E.g.: You're terminally ill and want to die before the disease takes you, so I help to to that end, then kill myself. (This of course being a totally theoretical scenario. Your mileage may vary. Offer not valid in the state of Michigan. Test subjects have reported possible side effects such as nausea, diarrhea and acute dyspepsia) |
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Sept 30, 2008 18:28:18 GMT -6
It doesn't necessarily have to equate to that. You're *choosing* to equate it to that. Since neither of us (to my knowledge) have had in depth psychological analytical conversations with someone talking about their intent to take their own life and someone elses just before they offed themselves and someone else, I'm guessing that you would have to choose to equate it some way also. My point is that you can't know they *didn't* have the intent to kill themselves first (as well as take the other life). Just as I don't *know* their intent was to take their own life first, you don't *know* that their intent wasn't to take their own life first. There's the possible scenario of the double suicide performed by the same person, as in a Dr. Kevorkian "assisted suicide" scenario. E.g.: You're terminally ill and want to die before the disease takes you, so I help to to that end, then kill myself. (This of course being a totally theoretical scenario. Your mileage may vary. Offer not valid in the state of Michigan. Test subjects have reported possible side effects such as nausea, diarrhea and acute dyspepsia) And? I fail to see what this has to do with our conversation at hand, the one about whether a suicide/murder would be more newsworthy than a murder/suicide. Zilla (poor Michigan, it never gets to have any fun) |
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Post by Tex on Sept 30, 2008 20:04:40 GMT -6
You two need to get a room.  |
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Post by Irish Stu on Oct 1, 2008 3:32:49 GMT -6
What if you committed suicide but made it look like someone else had killed you, with the result being that they were executed? You could be said to have murdered them, and if anyone ever figured out what you had done it might be more newsworthy than your average murder/suicide.
Simon (who is now going to contemplate the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow and whether it could carry a one pound coconut)
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Oct 1, 2008 8:40:19 GMT -6
You two need to get a room. Ideally, one with plenty of padding on the walls. |
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Oct 1, 2008 8:48:55 GMT -6
Ideally, one with plenty of padding on the walls. Why BB, I didn't realize you were so romantic. Trying to recreate the place we first met - the Sanatorium. Zilla ("Still I sing bonnie boys, bonnie mad boys, bedlam boys are bonnie. For they all go bare, and they live by the air, and they want no drink nor money") changed a got into a go |
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Oct 1, 2008 9:41:32 GMT -6
Dont forget to find a place with complimentary straight jackets and an electroshock therapy spa
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Oct 1, 2008 9:44:02 GMT -6
Why BB, I didn't realize you were so romantic. Trying to recreate the place we first met - the Sanatorium. I miss the days when we would hold each other's hand during Couples' Electro-convulsive Therapy sessions. |
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Post by Chicago Jake on Oct 1, 2008 12:23:37 GMT -6
I'm sure Georgette feels much better now.
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Post by Alice on Oct 1, 2008 12:36:09 GMT -6
I'm sure Georgette feels much better now. Oh yeah real good here. Just to add to the woes, there are rumors that Wal-mart had a bomb threat last night. |
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Oct 1, 2008 13:30:25 GMT -6
I guess that shows just how different people are. If I were fretting about how violent people were becoming in my neck of the woods, I would post here specifically because it would most likely degenerate to something amusing or something interesting. It would help me reaffirm that not all people are horrible. For me, that is certainly as valid a response as "Move".
Georgette, I'm sorry if our suicide/murder discussion didn't amuse you.
Zilla (the baskin-robbins of the message board)
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Post by Chicago Jake on Oct 1, 2008 13:32:35 GMT -6
Well, I wasn't seriously suggesting Georgette move. I've been to her neck of the woods, and it is very charming. I was just trying to be cute......Jake
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Oct 1, 2008 13:37:09 GMT -6
... there are rumors that Wal-mart had a bomb threat last night. If they're anything like the Anne Hathaway rumors, I wouldn't worry about them too much. |
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Post by Alice on Oct 1, 2008 13:38:06 GMT -6
It is charming here and that is the main problem....people are moving here from DC and Prince George's County and bringing their bad habits with them. Zilla, I saw it more as a philosophical discussion. It was posted here www.thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm/fa/viewstory/story_ID/10251 that is wasn't a rumor about the bomb threat. Applebees had to close early because of it. |
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Oct 1, 2008 13:44:46 GMT -6
Zilla, I saw it more as a philosophical discussion. Yeah, I'm the Jean-Paul Sartre of poo. |
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Post by Kawaii Kaiju on Oct 1, 2008 13:51:44 GMT -6
Well, I wasn't seriously suggesting Georgette move. I've been to her neck of the woods, and it is very charming. I was just trying to be cute......Jake Heh, and to be honest, I had completely forgotten your comment, and mentioned it as about the only real option a person has when they can't control the people in the area around them. So, "Sorry! That knife wasn't meant for you. Can you please remove it from your kidney and give it back to me?" Georgette, well sure it was a philosophical discussion, but it was about such an absurd topic that hopefully it made you giggle at least once  Zilla (who was just trying to be cute too) |
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