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Post by Irish Stu on Mar 27, 2006 11:24:54 GMT -6
Bob's experience that he described in his 'F**k kids on planes' thread reminded me of an incident on our British Airways flight from London to Miami on our way to Hedo last October. The cabin crew were clearing away the trays from the in-flight meal when a commotion started behind us. The woman behind Sam had apparently begun to recline her seat but it seems that the French guy sitting behind her didn't want her to. Rather than speak to her and offer her a reason why this should be a problem for him, his response instead was to catch her seatback with one of his knees as it reclined then brace his leg to stop it going back any further. He then started jabbing the back of her seat hard with his other knee. I heard the woman's protests to the French guy, which was when I turned around in time to see her husband get to his feet and ask him what he thought he was playing at. The French guy stayed seated but let fly at him loudly with a flurry of abuse in a mixture of English and French. It turns out that there were several other French families in that area of the plane, I don't now if they were travelling together or not, and they, alerted by the noise that their fellow countryman was making, were soon on their feet and also hurling abuse at the English guy. Now the English and French hatred for each other goes back over 1000 years, I think it's actually programmed into our DNA, so a second later a dozen or more English guys were on their feet too and spoiling for a fight with 'the olde enemy'. Threats were made and one or two guys actually left their seats and moved into the aisle. This was the point when I sat back down in my seat content to listen to the goings on without risking getting dragged into it. Facing forward now I could see a sea of faces with expressions varying from excited to puzzled and nervous as by now everyone in our section of the plane, and a few in the next section, were facing backwards watching the English and French prepare to re-enact the Battle of Agincourt at 30,000 feet.
In spite if the anger that both groups of men had got worked up into my guess was that they all had just enough sense to not want to suffer the consequences of a getting into a mass brawl somewhere over the Atlantic, so an uneasy stand-off ensued which was finally broken by the flight attendants, and in particular one very camp flight attendant who did a magnificent job of getting all the players in this mid-air drama to sit back down in their seats. He then spoke to the French guy who had started it all and informed him that there was always the option of him being handcuffed to his seat and having the cops waiting to escort him off the plane in Miami if he wanted to continue his protests. He declined the offer and kept quiet for the rest of the flight.
Nine hour flights can drag so much so it's always good when there's something to break the boredom and kill a little time, and this incident certainly did that!!
Simon
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Post by pixiedust on Mar 27, 2006 11:52:18 GMT -6
Wow Simon! Nothing like that on my flight over here TO England, we'll see how things go on the way back.
I really hate people who think they own everything though and wouldn't have approved of that guy being such an ass myself.
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Post by Christinko on Mar 27, 2006 13:10:35 GMT -6
I think everyone acted badly, but I DO feel for the French guy. Perhaps my opinion is not popular.
I'm so freaking sick of folks dumping their chair back into my lap on full flights. I can't have easy access to my meal, I can't get up easily, and I certainly can't use a laptop with another person's seat in my lap.
When someone does it to me, I immediately let out a yelp of distress as though I've been struck (which makes them turn around to see what they did) and ask the person to put the seat back up. Usually the person does or offers to trade seats, which is fine with me. (I never put my seat back when someone is behind me--I just think it's rude on tight flights.)
When someone will NOT put the seat back up, I most assuredly scrunch down and balance both knees into their back to push the seat as far forward as I can and periodically release so they bounce back and wake up. When/if they complain (they seldom say anything because they were rude first and it's become a stupid battle of wills at this point), I just say "sorry," but I don't ever stop.
In addition, because I'm a cruel ass, I also get up and down more frequently and use the back of their chair to pull myself up (normally, I wouldn't dream of touching the occupied chair in front of me to get up.)
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 27, 2006 14:09:29 GMT -6
I hate to defend the Frenchman, but I have to agree with Chris. I'd prefer that the seats didn't recline at all. When the ass in front of me reclines way back, I find myself "accidentally" bumping it quite frequently with my knees. Of course, I always apologize profusely. They usually give up after a couple of those "accidental" whacks......Jake
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 14:27:54 GMT -6
Chris, I would suggest that you always request the seat in front of the bulkhead so no one sits in front of you. Might keep you from having some problems some day that you don't want.
I hate to say this but if you sat behind me, my seat would be going back when ever I wanted it to. If you started to push, kick, scream and groan I could care less. Keep pushing and when I had my coffee or soda in my hand I would sneeze or there would be a little turbueance and it would accidentally fly over the seat into your lap. Liquid and lap tops don't mix well. An act of God like a sneeze of a little turbulence can happen at anytime. Oopsssssssssssssssss.
I paid for my seat and if I wish to recline the back rest it is my right. The airlines had them made to do that. If they didn't want use to recline they would have installed non reclining backs on them.
As long as a person remains in their seat and does not try to use both their's and yours at the same time, there should be nothing to complain about.
Sorry my dear but I totally disagree with you.
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Post by Christinko on Mar 27, 2006 14:33:46 GMT -6
No problem, Joe! We could just switch seats then. And my seat will not be pushed into your space because I don't recline on full flights.
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 14:35:38 GMT -6
No problem, Joe! We could just switch seats then. And my seat will not be pushed into your space because I don't recline on full flights. Chris I don't have a problem with someone putting their seat back. What do you then if the next person puts their seat back? Joe. |
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 14:39:52 GMT -6
Jake you don't like people to recline their seat on planes. Let me turn this around another way. What do you do when you light up a cigar and the person next to you complains? I know how much you complain about peoples smoking rights(and I agree with you on that). What about peoples rights to recline their seats on an airplane? Just asking dude.
Joe.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 27, 2006 14:40:20 GMT -6
If she keeps switching seats, she'll eventually be in the bulkhead seat, and everyone will be happy......Jake
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Mar 27, 2006 14:42:13 GMT -6
Unless she moves up to the cockpit, in which case the pilot will be miserable.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 27, 2006 14:45:54 GMT -6
Joe, I never get complaints about my cigars, because I generally only smoke them in cigar-friendly bars where people expect to smell them. If I'm smoking one at Delroy's and somebody complains, I move. Besides, my cigars smell good, so nobody ever does complain.
And I never denied people the right to recline their airplane seat. But with that right comes the possibility of an accidental knee to the back, for which I always apologize. They usally decide ON THEIR OWN that they are done reclining. I've never whined to a stewardess or tried to pass a law....Jake
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 14:53:39 GMT -6
Besides, my cigars smell good, so nobody ever does complain. But with that right comes the possibility of an accidental knee to the back, for which I always apologize. .Jake You haven't been to California lately have you? Light that thing up a block away and some asshole will complain out here.( should start a new thread on that) Kind of like the accidental sneeze and coffee flying over the seat ? ;D ;D ;D For which I would immediately apologize. ;D ;D ;D Joe. |
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Post by wildbill on Mar 27, 2006 15:26:49 GMT -6
Well I see both sides of this one (and am actually afraid to get in between Chris and Jake  ) but all we're talking about is what .837896 inches? Come on-they don't go back very far. So Chris does it really invade your space that much? And Jake does it really make much difference in how uncomfortable you are? Unless you can afford to fly first class your nothing more than cattle in a cattle car. Now why can't we talk about interesting stuff like whats going on over on the other board? (you know...like my dick is small will people laugh? Will I get a blowjob while I'm there? Is the water wet? And of course the "I'm a single guy-if I get pregnant from the Hottub will people take pictures and give me Hedo bucks) Bill (flame suit on) |
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Post by Hazelita on Mar 27, 2006 15:32:21 GMT -6
If I wanted to know what was going on at the other board I would go there. Dammit.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Mar 27, 2006 15:32:36 GMT -6
I'm a single guy-if I get pregnant from the Hottub will people take pictures and give me Hedo bucks Perhaps, but by then, you've probably lost whatever chance you had of getting that blowjob. |
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Post by Christinko on Mar 27, 2006 15:38:34 GMT -6
Naw....I'd rather kvetch about seats -- grin!
On one flight when the guy put his chair back the distance between the seat and my arm rest was less than 4 inches. I could breath on the top of his head and did. If there's plenty of space (the rare flight still has it!) then I have no problem with seats reclining.
When someone puts their seat back, you cannot use a laptop computer and you cannot lean over to get anything under your seat, etc. I could argue that that space is MINE, but that's a tit for tat argument ("this seat and its permutations are mine") for this subject.
We've often spoke about courtesy on this board. I just look at it as courtesy not to put your chair back into someone's space. Grant you, my response to their incourteous seat isn't courteous at all so I'm just as bad.
I think Hazel had this discussion on the board in another form: the freedom versus courtesy thing re: posting naughty pictures on this board. Apparently, now I take the courteous route instead of the freedom route. Go figure!
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Post by wildbill on Mar 27, 2006 15:46:49 GMT -6
Naw....I'd rather kvetch about seats -- grin! tit for tat argument ("this seat and its permutations are mine") for this subject. Screw the seat discussion then lets start talking about tits for tats"  (I love this board where we can drift around, perform multiple hijackings and nobody cares.) Bill |
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Post by Irish Stu on Mar 27, 2006 15:49:00 GMT -6
As the flight attendant pointed out to the French guy on my flight, everyone has a right to recline their seat whether there is someone behind them or not. Most of the flights we take are long haul, seven to nine hours, and a lot of people want to sleep after they've had their meal, and for most that means reclining their seat which I have no problem with. It does annoy me when people recline the moment the plane's wheels are off the ground and I always ask them to put it up again when the meal comes. If they refuse I'll ask an attendant to tell them. On a flight a couple of years ago the woman in front of me decided while everyone was eating their meals to recline her seat without warning which pushed everything on my meal tray towards me and knocked my glass of red wine into my lap... now that kind of thoughtless action does piss me off. As for me, I don't often recline my seat except on overnight flights when most people are sleeping, and I always warn the person behind me first (if they are awake).
As for the French guy, he was completely out of order. He didn't just push the woman in the back a little with his knee, he struck her hard enough to hurt her two of three times. She was quite upset about it, her husband was understandably angry and the French guy was lucky he didn't hit him.
Simon
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 27, 2006 15:53:03 GMT -6
. .....You haven't been to California lately have you? Light that thing up a block away and some asshole will complain out here.( should start a new thread on that)..... Joe, no offense, but I quit a high-paying job many years ago so that I could move OUT of California and back to God's Country here on Lake Michigan. You couldn't pay me enough to go back. And freedoms like cigars are part of the reason.......Jake |
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 27, 2006 15:54:54 GMT -6
And Jake does it really make much difference in how uncomfortable you are? As Chris pointed out, it's mostly about using a laptop and being able to reach under the seat. If I just wanted to be comfortable, I could recline MY seat in parallel and take a nap, but I'm usually trying to work on a plane......Jake |
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Post by Hazelita on Mar 27, 2006 16:16:37 GMT -6
Freedom vs. Courtesy. I dream of a day when simple courtesy for the masses would win over the freedoms of the selfish.
Courtesy is a very rare thing these days. Pregnant women stand on buses and subways because men will not offer them their seats. Undisciplined children wreak havoc on unsuspecting restaurant patrons because parents don't give a shit. And people on airplanes lean all the way back in their seats regardless of whether their fellow passenger is working on a laptop, eating a meal, or if they are simply too large to handle a decrease in personal space.
With a very small number of bulkhead seats per plane, not everyone who requests one will be lucky enough to get one. I would be very happy if all airlines did away with reclining seats ... unless they did a complete re-design of the plane, removed rows, and increased the space between my seat and the seat in front of me by at least 6 inches.
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Post by Tex on Mar 27, 2006 16:23:43 GMT -6
I'm 6'4" and ride coach on Asian airlines (small seats)frequently and am too cheap to pay for first class or business. I just have a couple of beers and figure I'll get there sooner or later. WTF. If the French guy really needed more, he could buy a first class seat. The airlines do wedge you in like sardines, but the alternative is higher priced tickets.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Mar 27, 2006 16:25:29 GMT -6
Actually, United (and probably others) has a section they euphemistically call "economy plus" which is the first ten rows of coach. There is an extra, oh I'm not sure, maybe five inches of space. It makes a big difference in the seat-reclining issue. But they mostly give them to frequent flyers like me.......Jake
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 16:32:22 GMT -6
. .....You haven't been to California lately have you? Light that thing up a block away and some asshole will complain out here.( should start a new thread on that)..... Joe, no offense, but I quite a high-paying job many years ago so that I could move OUT of California and back to God's Country here on Lake Michigan. You couldn't pay me enough to go back. And freedoms like cigars are part of the reason.......Jake Don't worry none taken. I would leave if I could. Joe. |
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 16:51:37 GMT -6
When they are serving meals/drinks, yes your seat should be in the upright position after that you are free to do whatever.
Maybe since I never have to travel by air for business and only when we are heading for or returning from a vacation spot, I am little selfish on how a person does or does not recline their seat. Maybe if I was working a laptop(don't need one of those on vacation) or something between cities and meetings I might feel different.
What Hazel mentioned about people leaving pregnant women standing. I was taught and we taught our daughters that in those type of situations( waitng room, bus, etc.) you give up your seat to pregnant mothers and older people. That does piss me off when I see people unwilling to move.
Joe.
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Post by Irish Stu on Mar 27, 2006 16:54:48 GMT -6
I'm 6'4" and ride coach on Asian airlines (small seats)frequently and am too cheap to pay for first class or business. I just have a couple of beers and figure I'll get there sooner or later. WTF. If the French guy really needed more, he could buy a first class seat. The airlines do wedge you in like sardines, but the alternative is higher priced tickets. I'm with you Tex, a couple of bloody marys, some wine with my meal and frankly I couldn't care less about the seat in front so long as it is upright when I'm eating. I have used my laptop on flights and I agree that it is annoying if the seat in front is reclined (but they were putting reclining seats on planes long before people started bringing laptops onto them) but I accept that on long haul flights others want to sleep and they usually outnumber the laptop users. Simon |
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Post by Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III on Mar 27, 2006 17:23:53 GMT -6
Well this is just TOO funny!!
We've now moved into the realm of the seat recliners v. non-recliners. But before I move there, *FUCK* the French!! (just had to get that in!).
One perk of travelling a lot is NWA typically will upgrade me to first class for coach fare. While the extra space is nice, when the person in front decides to recline, the same issues you have in coach come up in first class. I specifically try to get the last row in first class so I can recline my seat without causing the person behind me grief. Sometimes that ain't possible, in which case I rarely recline my seat. If the person in front does, I have no qualms with "accidentally" banging the seat.
I long ago gave up even trying to use my laptop while flying. There is just not enough room to put all my papers around I need while 'puting.
...........Bob
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Post by Cherbunny on Mar 27, 2006 17:29:08 GMT -6
Freedom vs. Courtesy. I dream of a day when simple courtesy for the masses would win over the freedoms of the selfish. Amen to that! Is it just me, but I've always thought there is an *unspoken* code of conduct when I fly. Such as: 1. Keep your seat up until you're 10,000 high, then tilt back a small amount. 2. If you are stuck in the middle, you get both arm rests. The window and aisle folks can lean away from you and they get an armrest. 3. Put up your seat back during beverage and meal times. After dinner, relax with the coffee. 4. Put down the damn shades during the movie! 5. Don't get up to go to the bathroom when your row mates have food trays. 6. Check your god damn luggage! I can understand the carry-on and a briefcase deal, but does the carry-on have to take up 1/2 of the overhead storage? I'm sure there's more....... |
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 18:34:08 GMT -6
6. Check your god damn luggage! I can understand the carry-on and a briefcase deal, but does the carry-on have to take up 1/2 of the overhead storage? I'm sure there's more....... Oh shit don't get me started here. I think I mentioned it before. If I owned an airline the only thing you would pack on would be a brief case or a purse. Everything, I mean everything else would be check in. If you don't like it go fly someone else's airline. Waiting in the isle while some moron tries to put his/her oversized carry on that won't fit into the overhead just burns my ass. They should throw them and there f'ing bags off the plane.  Joe. |
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Post by Merlot Joe on Mar 27, 2006 18:44:04 GMT -6
I'm sure there's more....... 1. People who have to pee the minute the plane get's off the ground. Why didn't you pee before we left? ( I askl Denice that everytime we leave the house ;D ;D ;D ) 2. Playing their Ipods or walkmans so loud that you can here their music. I don't want to listen to your music. 3. The minute the plane takes off someone has to get up and get into the overhead compartment and pull their bag down on top of you. If you needed it why did you put it up their? 4. Extra heavy people who sit in their seat and yours? ;D ;D If you don't fit into your own seat you should have to buy two. I am sure there is more. Joe. |
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) but all we're talking about is what .837896 inches? Come on-they don't go back very far. 
