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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Apr 29, 2005 8:28:36 GMT -6
The President doesnt seem to have a concept about what he is saying with regards to his Private Accounts for Social Security. In his prepared statement at the beginning of the conference he said... BUT, later on in the conference, in responce to a question, his implies that all that SS has now is pretty worthless... Doesnt he realize that the IOU's in the file cabinets are the same government bonds backed by the full faith... blah blah blah ?? Full text of the Presidents Press Conference www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/04/28/bush.transcript/index.htmlGordon
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Post by Chicago Jake on Apr 29, 2005 9:36:33 GMT -6
Interesting how "everybody knew" that SS was in trouble for years. But now that someone has the guts to try to fix it, "everyone knows" that it is just fine the way it is. No wonder it is doomed......Jake
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Apr 29, 2005 9:50:44 GMT -6
Interesting how "everybody knew" that SS was in trouble for years. But now that someone has the guts to try to fix it, "everyone knows" that it is just fine the way it is. No wonder it is doomed......Jake Doesnt answer the question Jake... Are US Bonds worthless as he said many weeks ago when he peered into the file cabinet, or are they worthy of people investing their SS into?? Does he KNOW that they are the same thing?? Cant have it both ways. AND its not just spin... the answer is the basis for the debate. Too bad he isnt putting the effort into much more critical matters that need to be fixed... like Medicare, veterans benefits, military readiness and equipment, promised no child left behind funding, etc. Gordon
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Post by Chicago Jake on Apr 29, 2005 10:07:49 GMT -6
I wasn't trying to answer your question because I don't know the answer. My question is, since this private-investment option is OPTIONAL, why are people so upset about it?......Jake
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Apr 29, 2005 10:20:19 GMT -6
I wasn't trying to answer your question because I don't know the answer. My question is, since this private-investment option is OPTIONAL, why are people so upset about it?......Jake Probably because, as things currently stand, the $$$ come from money intended for the obligations of SS, and doesnt fix but exasperates the problem. IF it is reformed so that the $$ going into the accounts are ADD ON contributions, then its simply a redundant IRA with the government playing the role of Schwab, and other investment houses. No big deal to me if that is the case, contribute away. BUT then you have another government burucracy duplicating a private sector function, AND the SS issue remains unsolved. AT BEST its a non-fix of SS. Gordon
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Post by Chicago Jake on Apr 29, 2005 10:39:42 GMT -6
......doesnt fix but exasperates the problem..... Do you mean exacerbates the problem? If so, I'm not sure I agree. If you take some of your contributions out of the general fund, you also give up some of your entitlement to that general fund, so it should cancel out. No?......Jake P.S. - yes, I know that this decrease in your entitlement comes in the future, and the decrease in your contribution comes in the present. But it is in the future that the problems lie (when the population ratio ch-ch-changes), and that's what they are trying to fix.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Apr 29, 2005 12:42:50 GMT -6
Put it this way Jake... If you look at the details of the proposals that are currently out and about, EVERY ONE of the Private Account proposals include transfers from General Funds into SS to cover the transition costs, that are NOT required otherwise. I assume that this means that there is a net loss in the schemes that are not covered by 'reductions in entitlement'. The following report assumes a mandatory system of diversion to private accounts... HOWEVER, even if the system is voluntary the effect on the system remains the same except the shortfall is extended... From: www.socsec.org/publications.asp?pubid=503An analysis of the report that the President used as the basis for his Private Account proposal stated that the transition would result in a $2.2 trillion to $3.1 trillion shortfall (depending on whether guarantees were implimented for disabilities). See Page 12 (first three paragraphs) of the following report (PDF format) for the details WHY this happens... www.tcf.org/Publications/RetirementSecurity/Diamond_Orszag.pdfAnother consideration. No one has discussed what the cost of managing the fund will be. The aforementioned report indicated that 0.3% was used in there calculations for benefits, but that is most likely unrealistically low. This is a crucial factor in selection of existing open market IRA's. Trying to find a mutual fund with administrative costs THAT low is difficult. If we accept the premise that the government is less efficient than the private sector, keeping administratives costs should be MUCH higher in a government run program. Example- Taken from www.aicpa.org
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Post by Chicago Jake on Apr 29, 2005 14:11:23 GMT -6
.....See Page 12 (first three paragraphs) of the following report (PDF format) for the details WHY this happens.... Gordon, you have obviously give this issue a lot more thought and research than I have. Or than I intend to! So I'll stop arguing with you. ;D ;D If I ever collect a dime of SS, public or private, I'll consider it an unexpected bonus. Meanwhile, the Feds can do whatever they want with the money they steal from me at gunpoint, as usual.....Jake
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Apr 30, 2005 5:37:47 GMT -6
Gordon, you have obviously give this issue a lot more thought and research than I have. Or than I intend to! So I'll stop arguing with you. ;D ;D If I ever collect a dime of SS, public or private, I'll consider it an unexpected bonus. Meanwhile, the Feds can do whatever they want with the money they steal from me at gunpoint, as usual.....Jake Yes I have... Thank you for the acknowledgement!! Gordon
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on May 3, 2005 14:21:53 GMT -6
If I ever collect a dime of SS, public or private, I'll consider it an unexpected bonus. My motto on this whole thing: Simplifies matters sooooooooooo much.
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