Time for Shale and Tar Sands?

[Tex]

It has long been known that the US has significant oil reserves in the oil shales of the Rockies and that Canada has the same in their tar sands of the west (OK, I know they like to call them "oil sands" now, but to me an oil sand is something you drill into). The reserves in the US and Canada are staggering, but they are labor intensive. Both are mined and processed rather than opening a valve and stepping back as with a conventional well. The quality of the crude produced is pretty good.

As much low grade sniping has gone on with Canada in the last few years, they have been a reliable natural gas supplier and Alberta is certainly a much more stable supplier than OPEC.

Both shale and tar sand production are more expensive than conventional recovery, but in making a comparison, perhaps we should factor in some of the foreign policy costs of being dependent on the whims of some very unstable regimes.

[Bluejay]

Yup, time to get those suckers going. I assume, however, that the environmental cost is greater?

tex said:

It has long been known that the US has significant oil reserves in the oil shales of the Rockies and that Canada has the same in their tar sands of the west (OK, I know they like to call them "oil sands" now, but to me an oil sand is something you drill into). The reserves in the US and Canada are staggering, but they are labor intensive. Both are mined and processed rather than opening a valve and stepping back as with a conventional well. The quality of the crude produced is pretty good.

As much low grade sniping has gone on with Canada in the last few years, they have been a reliable natural gas supplier and Alberta is certainly a much more stable supplier than OPEC.

Both shale and tar sand production are more expensive than conventional recovery, but in making a comparison, perhaps we should factor in some of the foreign policy costs of being dependent on the whims of some very unstable regimes.

[Tex]

So far, the land has been restored well after mining. In our part of Texas, we strip mine lignite coal. The land after mining is better than it was before because it is contoured to avoid erosion. The problem is that the process takes several years for a given tract. I think I read an article a while back about Synfuel, or something like that, a Canadian company big in the tar sands, talking about what a good job they had done with land restoration.

My engineer partner attends all of the technology shows in Houston, and some of the new production technology is unbelievable. Much of this has been in the area of enhanced recovery. Even with the most efficient water drive, at least half the petroleum is left in place by conventional recovery techniques. In the next few years, many billions of barrels thought unmoveable will be brought to the surface.

[Tex]

Speak of the devil, AOL put out an article on this today, even mentioned Syncrude (I was close).

[nemo]

Too late.....look at the chart of "COSWF"....smart money's way ahead of you guy's.

[Tex]

All of the royalty trusts have done very well. I own Sabine because I am more familiar with them. Apache has done well as have the Canadians.

[nemo]

Good on ya

[DT]

CBS 60 Minutes had a segment on the Tar Sands in Canada with T- Boone Pickens Sunday. Very interesting piece.They say there is trillions of barrels of high quality crude in them Tar Sands.

[WSSkier]

This is already happening.

Suncor Energy of Alberta operates refineries in Sarnia, Ontario (70,000 BBD) and Commerce City, CO (90,000 BBD) that process some of these oil sands and are being modified to produce low-sulpher fuels and a larger volume of their upstream input from oil sands sour crude blends.

They not only operate the oil sands operation, but the refining and marketing stream for these products (at least in Colorado they do, branded under Phillips 66). The two refineries here were the former Conoco facility (sold for DOJ concerns about the Phillips merger) and the Valero facility across the street (formerly Total then Diamond Shamrock).

The only reson I know all this is because I've been doing business directly (before Suncor) and indirectly since I moved to Colorado.

[Tex]

My gay neighbor's little brother works for Shell up in Colorado on their oil shale project. I had intended to ask him details, but missed him when he was in over Christmas

[Bluejay]

The thread has been far too polite and civil, so I think Jake should close it ;D ;D ;D Can't we get an anti-French comment in somehow? ;D

[♥ COVID-19♥]

How about this: we should be looking for oil in the scalp of a Frenchman.

[DT]

BP spent over 2 billion dollars re-tooling their refinery to process shale. They have been online for six months. The byproduct from the processing (Petcoke) is causing some big concerns for the Chicago folks.



"Petcoke.

Lots and lots and lots of petcoke, a coal-like waste product that comes in high volumes from tar sands refining, is being dumped in massive piles near homes on Chicago’s southeast side. These neighborhoods are already suffering from an array of unfair environmental burdens, including long-standing coal piles that have sent dangerous wind-whipped particulate matter into the surrounding areas. Now that the coal piles are disappearing (in no small part due to the closure of the nearby Stateline coal plant and its Chicago cohorts Fisk and Crawford), they are being replaced with five-story mounds of petcoke, a crumbly material rich in heavy metals that is even more prone to blowing.

BP Whiting is now the second biggest producer of petcoke amongst American refineries. They will be spitting out 6,000 tons of the stuff a day; more than 2 million tons annually. But BP is hardly alone. The issue of petcoke hit the national media spotlight when piles started showing up along the Detroit River after a similar expansion of tar sands refining began at the nearby Marathon refinery. And doesn’t stop in these two places: new regulatory documents point to similar issues in Lima and Toledo, Ohio (the Detroit piles ended up somewhere in Ohio…nobody is saying exactly where).

Is this the vision Big Oil has for the cities of the Great Lakes? Is this the transformation that Chicago city officials have in mind when they talk about a revitalized river system and investments in our port—a step back to the worst messes of our town’s industrial past? Make no mistake, this is a problem. And it is one that will be growing quickly as region’s tar sands refinery expansion projects come online."

[Chicago Jake]

My dog prefers Pepsi.

This is your back yard, isn't it DT? How's it looking to you guys over there?

[DT]

I'm twenty miles southeast of the petcoke, a healthy northwest wind, would put the shit, right in my face.


Petcoke is high in sulfur, carbon and metals, it usually shipped overseas where it is burned as fuel. Here's what I don't get? The steel mill blast furnaces,in our area,has a byproduct called sludge. Sludge like Petcoke is high in sulfur,carbon, and very high in iron. The steel mills makes briquettes out of the sludge and recycle them back into the blast furnace. You'd think, oil and steel would get together on this to stop the massive stock-piles.

pssst.... Bravo, to Mayor Emanuel who is going to propose an ordinance at next month’s City Council meeting that will prohibit new petcoke facilities from opening anywhere in Chicago, and will stop existing facilities from expanding.

[Chicago Jake]

Yeah, Rahm (or "Tiny Dancer" as we like to call him) has a good handle on how to kill any chance of industry expanding in Chicago.