Surprise...we don't need Congress

[New Mama]

Obama continues to rule by executive order...

President Obama on Wednesday formally proposed the most expansive gun-control policies in generations and initiated 23 separate executive actions aimed at curbing what he called “the epidemic of gun violence in this country.”

[New Mama]

BTW, gun bans don't work. Chicago is a prime example. Here is another....

The D.C. gun ban, enacted in 1976, prohibited anyone other than law-enforcement officers from carrying a firearm in the city. Residents were even barred from keeping guns in their homes for self-defense.

Some in Washington who owned firearms before the ban were allowed to keep them as long as the weapons were disassembled or trigger-locked at all times. According to the law, trigger locks could not be removed for self-defense even if the owner was being robbed at gunpoint. The only way anyone could legally possess a firearm in the District without a trigger lock was to obtain written permission from the D.C. police. The granting of such permission was rare.

The gun ban had an unintended effect: It emboldened criminals because they knew that law-abiding District residents were unarmed and powerless to defend themselves. Violent crime increased after the law was enacted, with homicides rising to 369 in 1988, from 188 in 1976 when the ban started. By 1993, annual homicides had reached 454.

In 2007, a panel for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit ruled that the city's gun ban was unconstitutional.

Since the gun ban was struck down, murders in the District have steadily gone down, from 186 in 2008 to 88 in 2012, the lowest number since the law was enacted in 1976. The decline resulted from a variety of factors, but losing the gun ban certainly did not produce the rise in murders that many might have expected.

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324081704578235460300469292.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

[Chicago Jake]

Some liberal positions, I can understand, even while disagreeing with them. But gun bans? I cannot fathom how anyone can possibly think they will have a positive effect.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Jan 16, 2013 15:35:21 GMT -6 New Mama said:

Obama continues to rule by executive order...

President Obama on Wednesday formally proposed the most expansive gun-control policies in generations and initiated 23 separate executive actions aimed at curbing what he called “the epidemic of gun violence in this country.”

That other damned Socialist Nazi, George H.W. Bush, also tried to take away our right to own any kind of weapon a decent, right-thinking Amerkin could possibly want ...

Import Ban on Assault Rifles Becomes Permanent

Published: July 08, 1989

...

In the Presidential campaign last year Mr. Bush, a hunter and longtime member of the N.R.A., opposed to any bans on assault weapons. But a public outcry after a drifter armed with an AK-47 killed five schoolchildren in Stockton, Calif., in January helped convince others in the Administration that some limits were needed.

...

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, called today's action ''a slap in the face to millions of Americans who voted for George Bush because of his well-publicized opposition to new gun control.'' The import ban, he said, would have no effect on crime and drug problems, but would ''simply be another infringement on the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding American citizens.''

The National Rifle Association said it would ''fight this decision in the courts, on Capitol Hill and at the ballot box.''

[Chicago Jake]

So what? Are you saying that since GHWB did it, Obama should be able to do it? Or are you saying conservatives should shut the fuck up, because a Republican did it and therefore it must be okay?

Either way, you are wrong.

[Ardbeg... innit]

I do recall very high praises here from "right leaning individuals", oh about 8 years ago, for the concept of a "strong President" who took matters into his own hands... just saying.

[Ardbeg... innit]

Just a philosophical question question... If having everyone carrying live/loaded weapons is so good, why are they PROHIBITED at gun shows. I would think that if anyplace where loaded guns would be considered a good thing, it would be a gin show, YET they are prohibited. You CAN bring a gun to a gun show, but you have to register it at the entrance and it is made incapable of being fired.

Anyone?

[New Mama]

Jan 17, 2013 8:49:11 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Just a philosophical question question... If having everyone carrying live/loaded weapons is so good, why are they PROHIBITED at gun shows. I would think that if anyplace where loaded guns would be considered a good thing, it would be a gin show, YET they are prohibited. You CAN bring a gun to a gun show, but you have to register it at the entrance and it is made incapable of being fired.

Anyone?

Never hear of any kind of gun ban at gun shows. I know Art has taken a gun to a gun show to have it priced.

If their is such a law, no doubt it is by State and the result of a left leaning legislative ruling.

[Chicago Jake]

Jan 17, 2013 8:41:51 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

I do recall very high praises here from "right leaning individuals", oh about 8 years ago, for the concept of a "strong President" who took matters into his own hands... just saying.

Cite?

You are turning into the Urban Legend poster. Everything you post must be true, and you know it, because you heard it "from a friend of a friend."

[New Mama]

Jan 17, 2013 8:41:51 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

I do recall very high praises here from "right leaning individuals", oh about 8 years ago, for the concept of a "strong President" who took matters into his own hands... just saying.

Yes a strong President that LEADS. I don't believe anyone wrote rule by executive order.

[Chicago Jake]

Jan 17, 2013 8:49:11 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Just a philosophical question question... If having everyone carrying live/loaded weapons is so good, why are they PROHIBITED at gun shows. I would think that if anyplace where loaded guns would be considered a good thing, it would be a gin show, YET they are prohibited. You CAN bring a gun to a gun show, but you have to register it at the entrance and it is made incapable of being fired.

Anyone?

More "friend of a friend" info? Or do you have actual facts to back this up?

[New Mama]

Jan 16, 2013 20:48:59 GMT -6 ♥ COVID-19♥ said:

Jan 16, 2013 15:35:21 GMT -6 New Mama said:

Obama continues to rule by executive order...

That other damned Socialist Nazi, George H.W. Bush, also tried to take away our right to own any kind of weapon a decent, right-thinking Amerkin could possibly want ...

Import Ban on Assault Rifles Becomes Permanent

Published: July 08, 1989

...

In the Presidential campaign last year Mr. Bush, a hunter and longtime member of the N.R.A., opposed to any bans on assault weapons. But a public outcry after a drifter armed with an AK-47 killed five schoolchildren in Stockton, Calif., in January helped convince others in the Administration that some limits were needed.

...

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, called today's action ''a slap in the face to millions of Americans who voted for George Bush because of his well-publicized opposition to new gun control.'' The import ban, he said, would have no effect on crime and drug problems, but would ''simply be another infringement on the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding American citizens.''

The National Rifle Association said it would ''fight this decision in the courts, on Capitol Hill and at the ballot box.''

But the assult gun ban didn't work and it was allowed to expire. Who here ever said that Bush was always right or that they agreed with everything he did?

[Ardbeg... innit]

Sorry Anita, it enforced by the organizers of the gun shows

And if you find that link offensive because of its source, here is the link to Crossroads web site FAQ cited below, their calendar of events can be verified there

For every event, their stated rationale for not permitting loaded weapons in the gun show was simple: safety. Crossroads Gun Show, a touring event across the western United States, explained on their website:

Q: Can I carry a loaded gun in the gun show? I have a Concealed Carry Permit.

A: We respectfully request that you do not bring any loaded firearm into the gun show. Safety is our Number One Priority, and a safe environment in the show can only be maintained if there are no loaded guns in the show.

At most shows, if an attendee brings a personal firearm, he or she must check it at the door and use a tie “so that they cannot be operated, be breached or loaded.”

Some events, like Bill Goodman’s Gun & Knife Shows across Ohio and Tennessee, even threaten prosecution for those who try to enter with a loaded weapon. “Patrons who bring loaded magazines or weapons into the show will be refused entry and may be subject to prosecution,” their website reads.

The widespread prohibition undermines the backbone of the NRA’s case against stronger gun safety laws. The powerful gun lobby argues that the best way to prevent more gun violence is for more people to have guns, supposedly deterring would-be criminals. The organization has succeeded in convincing every state but Illinois to enact laws allowing people to carry concealed weapons and conservative lawmakers are passing legislation to eliminate gun-free zones around schools and hospitals.

A full list of the 51 gun shows that explicitly ban people from carrying loaded firearms is below:

1. Oklahoma City Gun Show (January 11-12)
2. ABBA Shriners Gun & Knife Show (January 12-13)
3. Gibraltar Taylor Gun & Knife Show (January 11-13)
4. Akron Gun Show (January 12-13)
5. Binghamton Gun & Knife Show (January 12-13)
6. Dalton Gun Show (January 12-13)
7. Dayton (Vandalia) Airport Expo (January 12-13)
8. Farmington Gun Show* (January 12-13)
9. Ft. Lauderdale Gun Show (January 12-13)
10. Germantown Gun & Knife Show* (January 12-13)
11. Kansas City Gun Show* (January 12-13)
12. Maitland Gun Show (January 12-13)
13. Mesa Gun Show (January 12-13)
14. Morehead Gun Show* (January 12-13)
15. Nashville Gun Show (January 12-13)
16. San Angelo Gun & Blade Show (January 12-13)
17. San Francisco Gun Show (January 12-13)
18. Wichita Cessna Gun Show* (January 12-13)
19. Las Vegas Shot Show (January 15-18)
20. Ft. Pierce Gun Show (January 19-20)
21. Gonzales Gun Show (January 19-20)
22. Hendersonville Gun Show* (January 19-20)
23. Jackson Gun & Knife Show* (January 19-20)
24. Jacksonville Florida Gun Show (January 19-20)
25. Jefferson Gun Show (January 19-20)
26. Marietta Jim Miller Park Gun Show* (January 19-20)
27. Miami Florida Gun Show (January 19-20)
28. Paducah Gun Show* (January 19-20)
29. Phoenix Gun Show (January 19-20)
30. Springfield Gun Show* (January 19-20)
31. Topeka Gun Show* (January 19-20)
32. Venice Gun and Knife Show (January 19-20)
33. Des Moines Gun Show (January 25-27)
34. Canandaigua Gun Show (January 26-27)
35. Carlsbad Gun & Blade Show (January 26-27)
36. Costa Mesa Gun Show (January 26-27)
37. Fort Myers Gun, Knife, Civil War & Militaria Show (January 26-27)
38. Goodman Dayton Gun & Knife Show (January 26-27)
39. Gun Show in the Smokies* (January 26-27)
40. Kingman Gun, Knife, Coin & Collectibles Show & Sale (January 26-27)
41. Lawrenceville Gun Show* (January 26-27)
42. Macon Gun Show (January 26-27)
43. New Orleans Area Gun & Knife Show (January 26-27)
44. Oklahoma City Gun and Knife Show* (January 26-27)
45. Palmetto Gun Show (January 26-27)
46. Pensacola Florida Gun Show (January 26-27)
47. Sedalia Gun Show* (January 26-27)
48. Tulsa Gun Show* (January 26-27)
49. Watkins Glen Gun & Knife Show (January 26-27)
50. Wichita Coliseum Gun Show* (January 26-27)
51. Wichita Falls Gun & Knife Show (January 26-27)

*- Events sponsored by R.K. Shows Inc confirmed to ThinkProgress by phone that loaded weapons, even for those with concealed carry permits, are prohibited.

[Ardbeg... innit]

QED for a "Safe Environment, prohibit loaded guns"

[New Mama]

Banning guns at gun shows does seem odd and I would have never guessed that it was voluntary. I can only speculate as to why. Maybe they feel they must do this because the owning of guns are under attack and they fear some lune will make it worse by shooting someone at a gun show. I'd like to know the real reason because 'safety' doesn't pass the smell test with me.

[Ardbeg... innit]

Jan 17, 2013 9:34:21 GMT -6 New Mama said:

Banning guns at gun shows does seem odd and I would have never guessed that it was voluntary. I can only speculate as to why. Maybe they feel they must do this because the owning of guns are under attack and they fear some lune will make it worse by shooting someone at a gun show. I'd like to know the real reason because 'safety' doesn't pass the smell test with me.

Here you go Anita.. from their website...ask the source and find out... double dog dare...

[e-mail]

[New Mama]

Jan 17, 2013 9:38:39 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Jan 17, 2013 9:34:21 GMT -6 New Mama said:

Banning guns at gun shows does seem odd and I would have never guessed that it was voluntary. I can only speculate as to why. Maybe they feel they must do this because the owning of guns are under attack and they fear some lune will make it worse by shooting someone at a gun show. I'd like to know the real reason because 'safety' doesn't pass the smell test with me.

Here you go Anita.. from their website...ask the source and find out... double dog dare...

[e-mail]

you obviously don't know me very well. I have emailed Crossroads as follows:

I am most curious as to why you ban loaded guns from your events even when the individual has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Your website simply states ‘safety’ as the concern.

Doesn’t that send the wrong message at this time of rabid anti-gun zealots attempting to take away gun rights?

It seems to me that you are telling the public that even licensed knowledgeable gun enthusiasts can not be trusted with a loaded gun.

I appreciate your response.

[Ardbeg... innit]

I know you well enough. I will be interested in their reply.

My expectation is the "Gun Show Exception" scares the shit out of them. They are afraid that any nutcase/terrorist can come into their show and go nuts. SAFE ENVIRONMENT free of live and loaded guns wins out. Logical.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using proboards

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Apparently, *they* don't even buy into the "an armed society is a polite society" bullshit.

[New Mama]

I'm impressed that I have already received the following reply to my email inquiry. It would appear that the odds are against a safe event due to the shear number of guns in one confined space. I’m not sure I buy into it but I suppose some people just don’t know how or won’t handle guns responsibly.

Like many things it’s all about education. I’m for stricter rules for guns and gun owners just against banning guns.

Hello Anita-

We have had Concealed Carry Permit holders, as well as law enforcement personnel, who were carrying loaded in the shows in the past. This has not proved to be a safe situation. We have had 33 accidental discharges, which we consider to be negligent discharges, during the past 35 years. Thankfully, nobody has been killed. Some have wounded themselves when trying to clear the actions of their firearms. One person last year wounded a woman and narrowly missed a child when he pulled the trigger on a gun he didn't know was loaded.

We are strong advocates of Concealed Carry and have spent considerable amounts of money in past years lobbying for and supporting concealed carry in Utah. However, the unique environment of the gun show encourages passing firearms back and forth between individuals and we have had many incidents over the years where loaded handguns have been handed to dealers to try a holster fit, etc. In Atlanta several years ago at an Eastman gun show, a young boy was killed when a loaded S&W Model 36 was passed across the table to the boy's father to see how it fit the holster which was on display. Because of the close quarters and multiple guns we experience at the shows, we feel very fortunate that our shows have been safe for the thousands of people who have attended.

We hope this helps you to better understand our show policy. We appreciate your willingness to abide by our request. We do support the Second Amendment. Bob Templeton has been deeply involved in media interviews during the last two media frenzied weeks and attended a meeting in Washington DC last week representing the gun shows of America as President of the National Association of Arms Shows (NAAS) at the invitation of Vice President Biden. Crossroads also added 1000 new members to the NRA last week at our show in San Francisco. We anticipate much action in Washington in the coming months and NAAS has hired a former congressman to lobby in behalf of gun owners rights.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Lynn at Crossroads

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Jan 17, 2013 15:54:50 GMT -6 New Mama said:

It would appear that the odds are against a safe event due to the shear number of guns in one confined space. I’m not sure I buy into it but I suppose some people just don’t know how or won’t handle guns responsibly.

Like many things it’s all about education. I’m for stricter rules for guns and gun owners just against banning guns.

I don't even know where to begin with this.

[Tex]

I have friends who regularly go to gun shows, but I have never been to one, just not my thing. If for no other reason than you have the general public tinkering with and playing with the hammers and triggers, etc, at least some of the people not being knowledgable about firearms, having loaded weapons at a gun show would be a bad idea. Maybe there are other reasons but that one would suffice for me.

[Robin Hood]

Jan 17, 2013 16:43:43 GMT -6 Tex said:

I have friends who regularly go to gun shows, but I have never been to one, just not my thing. If for no other reason than you have the general public tinkering with and playing with the hammers and triggers, etc, at least some of the people not being knowledgable about firearms, having loaded weapons at a gun show would be a bad idea. Maybe there are other reasons but that one would suffice for me.

^^ This

I will also add, almost every show I have been to were fine with my CCW as long as it stayed put and I wasn't showing it or trading it... if you are going to have it out and people finger fucking it... yep... needs to be unloaded and zip tied.

[Chicago Jake]

Jan 17, 2013 16:43:43 GMT -6 Tex said:

I have friends who regularly go to gun shows, but I have never been to one, just not my thing. If for no other reason than you have the general public tinkering with and playing with the hammers and triggers, etc, at least some of the people not being knowledgable about firearms, having loaded weapons at a gun show would be a bad idea. Maybe there are other reasons but that one would suffice for me.

Same reason you can't take your dog into the zoo with you. It seems ironic at first, but it's really just too much of a good thing.