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Post by New Mama on Dec 14, 2012 14:32:27 GMT -6
I'm somewhat amazed that my home State Michigan enacted Right to Work legislation. Never thought I'd see the day. Obama rallied hard to stop it incorrectly claiming passage would take away their rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions but it still passed in a State that voted for him in the election by a comfortable margin. I thought it was unusual when Indiana did it earlier this year but I never ever thought to live to see Michigan do it too. So now we have 24 right to work States. Who’s next? New York?
In principal I think this is a move in the right direction. Besides giving individuals freedom to join or not, maybe labor unions will spend union dues for the benefit of union workers in the form of services, representation in disputes and proper pension administration instead of siphoning the dues to their favorite politician’s campaign chest to assure union power.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Dec 14, 2012 15:05:35 GMT -6
I'm very surprised by this move. Any idea how it came about in such a union stronghold?
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Post by New Mama on Dec 14, 2012 15:30:16 GMT -6
I'm very surprised by this move. Any idea how it came about in such a union stronghold? Earlier this year the unions aggressively promoted Proposal 2, a measure that would have given public and private workers a constitutional right to organize and bargain but also would have forever ban right-to-work legislation in future laws. That power grab by the union didn't sit well with the voters and was defeated. I'm guessing that the Republicans thought that the recent defeat would help them win the right to work vote....and it did. edited for typo
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 15, 2012 7:24:30 GMT -6
Funny that they waited until AFTER the elections to pull this one off. Have to believe that if they really thought that it was what the PEOPLE of Michigan wanted, they would have done it over the summer OR CAMPAIGNED on it this fall.
Neither of those happened and for good reason, they would have been voted soundly out of office.
At the State level, right now and after the first of the year, Michigan is a Red state. I can guarantee you that in two years that will reverse at all levels and this legislation WILL be overturned.
Snyder is no more than a weakly Walker who wasnt brave enough to face this issue head on.
BTW- The irony of the stated advantages of Right to Work for Less laws are that when everyone has enacted them, NO ONE has an advantage any longer and everyone is working for less money than they were before. Sweet.
BTW2- Internet joke of the week "I asked to join the Chamber of Commerce for all of the advantages that it brings as a member, but I didnt want to pay dues. I was turned down" THAT IS FUNNY
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Post by Tex on Dec 15, 2012 7:44:39 GMT -6
Texas has had right to work for as long as I can remember. Workers in unionized industries tend to belong to the union. Comeraderie in the work place is a strong motivator. RTW does keep the union answerable to all the workers, not just those with stroke at the union hall.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 19, 2012 7:10:13 GMT -6
Gov Synder's polling negatives double in the last few weeks, from 28% disapproval to 56% disapproval, and would lose against any of 4 potential Democratic opponents. Could be a one term gov and I would bet this bill is repeal on the new gov's first day in office.
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Post by Tex on Dec 19, 2012 8:14:09 GMT -6
This may be one of those win-win situations. Gordon doesn't like RTW in Michigan and I have misgivings about it too. Texas doesn't have the big pool of experienced auto workers that Michigan does and I doubt that Toyota would be in San Antonio if Michigan had done this years ago.
Same for fracking - natural gas demand is weak with the slow economy and there is a glut available due to the new shale fields opening up. The last thing we need is big new production from New York and Colorado...and California, keep those tax increases coming, the good companies and talented individuals you ran off are welcome here.
Send us your hard working, innovative masses yearning to breathe free. Welcome to Texas.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 19, 2012 8:52:31 GMT -6
Gov Synder's polling negatives double in the last few weeks, from 28% disapproval to 56% disapproval, and would lose against any of 4 potential Democratic opponents. Could be a one term gov and I would bet this bill is repeal on the new gov's first day in office. Obama's disapproval rating was 49%, but he was reelected. Watch employment improve in Michigan like it has in other right to work States then see what the voters think of Synder.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 19, 2012 8:59:15 GMT -6
Obama's disapproval rating may have been 49%, but Romney's were in the mid-50's... everything is relative, but you have to admit that a 28 point movement in the negative direction hurts.
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Post by Merlot Joe on Dec 19, 2012 16:23:43 GMT -6
Everyone in this country should have the right to work without having to be forced to join a labor organization. If CA would become a right to work state, unemployment would drop in no time from 10.1% to the mid 7%. Right to work would also keep many companies from leaving CA due to the higher cost of wages, state payroll taxes and benefits.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Dec 19, 2012 16:41:03 GMT -6
And they would all be forced to work multiple jobs because they weren't making a livable wage, as well as working in unsatisfactory working conditions and be required to work an unreasonable number of hours per day/week. But hey, at least they'd be employed, right?
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Post by Merlot Joe on Dec 19, 2012 16:52:56 GMT -6
And they would all be forced to work multiple jobs because they weren't making a livable wage, as well as working in unsatisfactory working conditions and be required to work an unreasonable number of hours per day/week. But hey, at least they'd be employed, right? Just because they do not belong to a left wing union run by thieves does not mean that the employment condition would be those of 1900. There are labor laws, working condition laws, and overtime laws. Maybe if you were an employer during sometime in your life instead of someone who sucks off of his employers all of the time you might realize what the cost of employment taxes, workers compensation, and other benefits are. It is easy for some to play back seat driver and complain and make accusations of situations if you have never been in the drivers seat. Go ahead start a company and pay all the expenses in excess of wages for having employees and see what side of your mouth you talk out of then. edited to add: If my company was one of those business that you could pick up and move to Texas, TeX would have a new neighbor tomorrow and Governor Moon Beam and The State of California could go fuck themselves.
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Post by Tex on Dec 19, 2012 17:26:40 GMT -6
We went to a dinner party with 12 people last night (in Austin). I was the only one there born in Texas. Two from Jordan, a Brooklyn, a Bronx, Ottawa, Ohio, two Colorado, Saigon, two California and me. All had come here for economic freedom and all had done pretty well.
Beeb, I would point out a couple of things, one being the cost of living. All those hidden costs associated with the unions do come out in the wash. I would bet you would live a lot better here on 60% of the income.
Also, right to work doesn't prevent anyone from joining a union. It just says the worker must have a choice and can't be forced to join a union.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Dec 20, 2012 0:57:20 GMT -6
I hate politically correct labels, right wing OR left wing. And this "right to work" one is as bad as any. Call it what it is: No Required Union Membership. "Right to work" is spin and nothing more.
Other politically correct but factually incorrect labels that I hate: "Pro-Life" (should be Anti Abortion), "Pro-Choice" (should be Pro Abortion), "Affordable Housing" (should be Subsidized Housing), "Living Wage" (should be Mandated Minimum Wage), "Health Care" (should be Subsidized Health Insurance), ad infinitum.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 20, 2012 9:33:40 GMT -6
And they would all be forced to work multiple jobs because they weren't making a livable wage, as well as working in unsatisfactory working conditions and be required to work an unreasonable number of hours per day/week. But hey, at least they'd be employed, right? What a bunch of bunk. Union workers in the private sector total around 7%. Workers working for less than the minimum wage are typically illegal or getting paid off the books and not paying taxes on their income. Unions have their place in US history and were needed back in the day. Wake up. Unions have become obsolete and have driven many jobs/companies to extinction being gobbled up by non union companies who do pay a living wage. You really believe that the workers at Toyota, Honda, Isuzu, Mazda and Nissan work two jobs and don't earn a living wage? I have never been a union member and manage just fine. Right to work is about freedom to choose. If business practices are unfair; workers still have the right to form or join unions to give themselves bargaining power.
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Post by Tex on Dec 20, 2012 12:04:05 GMT -6
Texas passed new right to work statutes in the 90s to update for new case law, but right to work has been the law here since 1947. We are doing OK down here. The sky is not falling. Life is good.
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Post by Tex on Dec 20, 2012 13:03:39 GMT -6
The unions might sell better if they really walked the walk.
Consider this: If all of the union members and sympathizers had really "worn the union label" like they urged the rest of us to do, there would still be a healthy union garment industry in the US.
Of my closest drinking buddies, five are union guys, 2 rail workers, 1 teamster, 1 fireman, 1 electrical.
The teamster (who works at a brewery), one of the rail workers, and the fireman all have side businesses (the rail worker retired on disability BTW). None hire union workers and rolled their eyes a little and looked at each other a little when I asked. The fireman runs an asphalt paving business on the side and the teamster has a business rebuilding wooden pallets (did 160,000 pallets last year). Both hire nothing but wetbacks. The "disabled" rail worker owns half of a strip club in the Dallas area. He acts as the bouncer. The hire any chick with a nice body who can give a good BJ. The electrician doesn't run any side business but he was put on as a journeyman having never pulled a wire in his life because his brother in law was the union shop steward. A child was nearly electrocuted because he installed the ground improperly on a dishwasher and the kid came along barefooted and leaned on it. The other rail worker makes well over $100,000 a year, works four days a month, and told me once that the company was raping them for making them pay $30 per month for 100% health care coverage for his family of four.
I like these guys and can't blame them for getting the deal they can but the system stinks.
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Post by Merlot Joe on Dec 20, 2012 13:26:11 GMT -6
My best firend Jim is a retired from AT&T and belondged to the telephone employee's union. He screamed bloody murder about two years ago when his union started charging him $16.50 a month for his wife's health insurance, dental and vision insurance.
On the other hand he has suffered from two strikes the union had. One in 1988 was over .50cents per hour and they were on strike for 16 weeks. The union paid him $50.00 for what they called strike duty, but they took $15.00 out of it for his union dues so he got $35.00. He almost went broke so he had to get a job loading carpet into trucks in a warehouse for $7.00 a hr.
He will tell you that after the 16 weeks of lost income the .35 cents an hour that they finally ended up with never made up the difference on what he lost.
The only ones that made money during the strike was the union theives(bosses). they still got their full pay check every two weeks.
If you ask him today he will tell you that if it wasn't for his retirement benefits the union fucked him over for 35 years.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 20, 2012 14:09:02 GMT -6
Out of curiosity I looked for information on where union money goes. I found financial statements for the AFLCIO for fiscal year ending 6-30-2012. 24% of dues go directly to Political Activities and Lobbying. 0% went to strikes. kcerds.dol-esa.gov/query/orgReport.doThe statement is very complex and way above my math 101 aptitude but I'm guessing that there be lots of pork in that budget.
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Post by New Mama on Jan 28, 2013 12:55:27 GMT -6
Update.
This will likely go all the way to the Supreme Court but the first battle in the courts is won by RTW supporters.
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