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Post by Chicago Jake on Dec 4, 2012 20:18:18 GMT -6
Christmas is a federal holiday. The government takes it off, including the Congress and all federal employees. The White House has a Christmas (not "Holiday") tree.
How do they get away with this? You can't put a Baby Jesus on a public square. You can't post the Ten Commandments in a courthouse. You can't say a prayer in public school. You can't even say the "under God" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance! Yet the entire fucking federal government celebrates the central holiday of Christianity.
I'm confused. Any theories out there?
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 4, 2012 21:43:22 GMT -6
A. If Congress didn't take the day off they'd be accused of being godless commies B. What does a Muslim need a Christmas tree for? C. Glenn Beck has pulled out his annual Christmas diatribe again hasn't he.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using proboards
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Post by New Mama on Dec 5, 2012 8:02:41 GMT -6
Some traditions die hard. Some even remember our Christian founding.
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Post by bloojay on Dec 5, 2012 15:53:58 GMT -6
...our Christian founding. Except that it wasn't.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 6, 2012 9:24:31 GMT -6
...our Christian founding. Except that it wasn't. I suppose it's debatable. BUT: Just read the first words of the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." In 1844, the Court said, "Christianity is part of our common law." In 1892, the Supreme Court said this: "No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national because this is a religious people. This is historically true." In 1930, the U.S. Supreme Court said this: "We are a Christian people, according to our motto." In 1952, the U.S. Supreme Court said, "We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being. Quotes from our founding fathers: www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/beliefs.htmlIt is fact that our Constitution gives us freedom of religion. Moreover, the desire for freedom of religion helped drive the revolution (in addition to taxation). It is also clear that the founders of our country were also Christians driven by Christian principals. I should add that I'm not of any specific faith nor am I an attendee at any Church, Mosque Synagogue or Temple.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 6, 2012 9:30:26 GMT -6
To answer Jake's question....from Wiki.answers.com:
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 6, 2012 9:31:29 GMT -6
"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
That is as about Non-Christian as it can get, everyone, regardless of religious background or atheist has a Creator. That Creator is defined extremely differently however.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 6, 2012 9:33:04 GMT -6
To answer Jake's question....from Wiki.answers.com: So its a legal holiday because of the biggest drunk that ever occupied the White House?
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Post by New Mama on Dec 6, 2012 9:38:43 GMT -6
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 6, 2012 9:51:42 GMT -6
I stand corrected, but the first site does state that he has the biggest drinking reputation. I think we can agree that Grant was the Presidential version of WC Fields.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 6, 2012 11:18:30 GMT -6
"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." That is as about Non-Christian as it can get, everyone, regardless of religious background or atheist has a Creator. That Creator is defined extremely differently however. I don't disagree...but please feel free to ignore the rest of the post or that each founding father was Christian. As I said it is debatable.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 6, 2012 12:46:46 GMT -6
Each of the Founding Fathers being a Deist cannot be doubted, whether they be truly Christian is debatable.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 6, 2012 13:53:56 GMT -6
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 7, 2012 6:33:56 GMT -6
... and I could quote sources that indicate that many more were truly Deist but put on the face of being Christian because it was required of them at the time.
This all gets away from the point of the claim that America is a "Christian" nation.
Frankly I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what that means. I regard myself as Christian, Westboro Baptist Church regards itself as Christian. I can tell you with absolute certainty that my interpretation of what it means to be Christian has very little in common with what members of that groups does.
So seriously Anita, there are MILLIONS of interpretations of what it means to be Christian in America alone, one for each person who claims that belief. HOW IN THE WORLD does that scale up from the individual to the national.
My personal interpretation of Christianity demands that I NOT impose my beliefs on anyone else in any form. I believe that doing so is akin to the WORST traits of the Taliban (which I make distinct from Islam in general). There are Christian Taliban members out there in America, and the slippery slope to that disgusting place starts with the insistence that because this is a "Christian Nation" we should feel free for the government to display and support tokens of that religion.
I do not put up outside displays of lights, I find most displays gaudy and ostentatious and not at all related to the "Christ" in "Christmas". Neither do I believe that any government at any level should be using taxpayer dollars to put up any such displays of religion of any kind. The Ten Commandments are not part of the US Constitution and do not belong in any document or office of any governmental official, neither should text from ANY religion.
Why is Christmas a Federal holiday? I dnot know, its not like Congress doesnt take enough time off already. If it were to be done properly, that Holiday should be a personal day, allowing the individual to take off any day they find particular holy or meaningful, NOT a day mandated by "big government"
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Post by Chicago Jake on Dec 7, 2012 9:08:56 GMT -6
I stand corrected, but the first site does state that he has the biggest drinking reputation. I think we can agree that Grant was the Presidential version of WC Fields. That link does not say that Grant was the fifth biggest drinker. It explicitly states that they are presented in chronological order.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Dec 7, 2012 9:10:28 GMT -6
To answer Jake's question....from Wiki.answers.com:
I'm sorry, Anita, but you'll have to connect the dots for me. I don't see how this answers my question at all. How do they get away with making Christmas a federal holiday when all other Christian-related concepts are banned from federal property?
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 7, 2012 9:17:59 GMT -6
I stand corrected, but the first site does state that he has the biggest drinking reputation. I think we can agree that Grant was the Presidential version of WC Fields. That link does not say that Grant was the fifth biggest drinker. It explicitly states that they are presented in chronological order. Which shows how closely I read that link
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Post by Tex on Dec 7, 2012 10:26:24 GMT -6
Gordon and I might disagree on politics, but we are pretty close on religion. I was born an Episcopalian and like the church and consider myself a Christian, but I certainly don't claim to know all of the details and am skeptical of those who claim such. I generally hold the clergy in low esteem, doubly so if they are frequently seen on television.
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Post by New Mama on Dec 7, 2012 11:13:52 GMT -6
Technically Christmas is not a Federal Holiday. If you read the declaration closely Congress approved and Grant signed a document for Washington DC. Each State has the authority to declare holidays or not. I don’t remember any law making the holiday mandatory either, but I could be wrong.
I don't remember saying the US is a Christian nation. I thought I said that the founding of the country was Christian. I agree that tax dollars should not pay for any religious endeavors, monuments or such.
Frankly I don't consider Christmas religious. Of course I know about the Christ in Christmas but that is not what Christmas is to me. I consider Christmas a spirit; a general feeling of emotional charity, Santa, Rudolf, lighted trees and family. I have never been a member of any organized religious group. I don’t believe in them nor do I agree with the need for the entire clergy hierarchy. Because of our past history of our Christian founding we have Commandments on old public buildings and In God we Trust is printed on our money. This is tradition based on our history, not what this country is today. According to the so called official sources like the dictionary; Christians are people that believe in Jesus and the teaching of the Bible. We all know that there are millions of interpretations of the Bible but does that make the different beliefs whether as groups or individuals not Christian?
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Dec 7, 2012 11:30:41 GMT -6
The real question here is why ISN'T Festivus a federal holiday?
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 7, 2012 12:19:16 GMT -6
Is it time to dig the National Pole out from the crawl space?
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Dec 7, 2012 12:35:37 GMT -6
Yes and please mind the dead girl scout tied to it.
Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards
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Post by Chicago Jake on Dec 7, 2012 12:37:20 GMT -6
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Dec 7, 2012 13:32:21 GMT -6
Yes and please mind the dead girl scout tied to it. Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards The Feats of Strength get a bit out of hand last year?
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Post by New Mama on Dec 7, 2012 13:36:20 GMT -6
Jake, I think that is a holiday schedule for Federal Employees...on the taxpayer dime of course. It is not a mandated schedule for all US workers.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Dec 7, 2012 13:38:07 GMT -6
Yes and please mind the dead girl scout tied to it. Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards The Feats of Strength get a bit out of hand last year?They did for the girl scout, especially when she tried to combine them with The Airing Of Grievances.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Dec 7, 2012 14:04:29 GMT -6
Jake, I think that is a holiday schedule for Federal Employees...on the taxpayer dime of course. It is not a mandated schedule for all US workers. Exactly. If that doesn't qualify as a "federal holiday," then I don't know what does.
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Post by Tex on Dec 7, 2012 15:21:11 GMT -6
The Feats of Strength get a bit out of hand last year? They did for the girl scout, especially when she tried to combine them with The Airing Of Grievances. What kind of Girl Scout nookies do you prefer, chocolate or thin mint
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Dec 7, 2012 15:42:14 GMT -6
They did for the girl scout, especially when she tried to combine them with The Airing Of Grievances. What kind of Girl Scout nookies do you prefer, chocolate or thin mint I'm into the multi-racial scene, so I prefer macaroons.
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Post by Tex on Dec 7, 2012 17:01:03 GMT -6
Can you dance the macarooña?
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