Why is Christmas a Federal Holiday?

[Chicago Jake]

Christmas is a federal holiday. The government takes it off, including the Congress and all federal employees. The White House has a Christmas (not "Holiday") tree.

How do they get away with this? You can't put a Baby Jesus on a public square. You can't post the Ten Commandments in a courthouse. You can't say a prayer in public school. You can't even say the "under God" portion of the Pledge of Allegiance! Yet the entire fucking federal government celebrates the central holiday of Christianity.

I'm confused. Any theories out there?

[Ardbeg... innit]

A. If Congress didn't take the day off they'd be accused of being godless commies
B. What does a Muslim need a Christmas tree for?
C. Glenn Beck has pulled out his annual Christmas diatribe again hasn't he.

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[New Mama]

Some traditions die hard. Some even remember our Christian founding.

[bloojay]

Dec 5, 2012 8:02:41 GMT -6 New Mama said:

...our Christian founding.

Except that it wasn't.

[New Mama]

Dec 5, 2012 15:53:58 GMT -6 bloojay said:

Dec 5, 2012 8:02:41 GMT -6 New Mama said:

...our Christian founding.

Except that it wasn't.

I suppose it's debatable. BUT:

Just read the first words of the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

In 1844, the Court said, "Christianity is part of our common law."

In 1892, the Supreme Court said this: "No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national because this is a religious people. This is historically true."

In 1930, the U.S. Supreme Court said this: "We are a Christian people, according to our motto."

In 1952, the U.S. Supreme Court said, "We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.

Quotes from our founding fathers:

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. (taken from a letter to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813)

“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” – Constitutional Convention of 1787, original manuscript of Benjamin Franklin's speech.

"Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." James Madison-June 20, 1785

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? " Thomas Jefferson 1781

"I now make it my earnest prayer the God would have you and the State over which you preside, in His holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field; and, finally, that he would be most graciously pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation." George Washington-June 8, 1783

www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/beliefs.html

It is fact that our Constitution gives us freedom of religion. Moreover, the desire for freedom of religion helped drive the revolution (in addition to taxation). It is also clear that the founders of our country were also Christians driven by Christian principals.

I should add that I'm not of any specific faith nor am I an attendee at any Church, Mosque Synagogue or Temple.

[New Mama]

To answer Jake's question....from Wiki.answers.com:

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870.

An Act making the first Day of January, the twenty-fifth Day of December, the fourth Day of July, and Thanksgiving Day, Holidays, within the District of Columbia. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following days, to wit: The first day of January, commonly called New Year's day, the fourth day of July, the twenty-fifth day of December, commonly called Christmas Day, and any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States as a day of public fast or thanksgiving, shall be holidays within the District of Columbia, and shall, for all purposes of presenting for payment or acceptance of the maturity and protest, and giving notice of the dishonor of bills of exchange, bank checks and promissory notes or other negotiable or commercial paper, be treated and considered as is the first day of the week, commonly called Sunday, and all notes, drafts, checks, or other commercial or negotiable paper falling due or maturing on either of said holidays shall be deemed as having matured on the day previous. APPROVED, June 28, 1870 by President Ulysses S. Grant.

[Ardbeg... innit]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

That is as about Non-Christian as it can get, everyone, regardless of religious background or atheist has a Creator. That Creator is defined extremely differently however.

[Ardbeg... innit]

Dec 6, 2012 9:30:26 GMT -6 New Mama said:

To answer Jake's question....from Wiki.answers.com:

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870.

An Act making the first Day of January, the twenty-fifth Day of December, the fourth Day of July, and Thanksgiving Day, Holidays, within the District of Columbia. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following days, to wit: The first day of January, commonly called New Year's day, the fourth day of July, the twenty-fifth day of December, commonly called Christmas Day, and any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States as a day of public fast or thanksgiving, shall be holidays within the District of Columbia, and shall, for all purposes of presenting for payment or acceptance of the maturity and protest, and giving notice of the dishonor of bills of exchange, bank checks and promissory notes or other negotiable or commercial paper, be treated and considered as is the first day of the week, commonly called Sunday, and all notes, drafts, checks, or other commercial or negotiable paper falling due or maturing on either of said holidays shall be deemed as having matured on the day previous. APPROVED, June 28, 1870 by President Ulysses S. Grant.

So its a legal holiday because of the biggest drunk that ever occupied the White House?

[New Mama]

[quote author=bornagaindruid board=Politics thread=12669 post=176961 time=1354807984
So its a legal holiday because of the biggest drunk that ever occupied the White House? [/quote]

According to this site he is a distant #5.

www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Drunkest_Presidents_in_US_History

According to this site Grant didn't make the top 8.

www.maxim.com/funny/americas-drunkest-presidents

[Ardbeg... innit]

I stand corrected, but the first site does state that he has the biggest drinking reputation. I think we can agree that Grant was the Presidential version of WC Fields.

[New Mama]

Dec 6, 2012 9:31:29 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

That is as about Non-Christian as it can get, everyone, regardless of religious background or atheist has a Creator. That Creator is defined extremely differently however.

I don't disagree...but please feel free to ignore the rest of the post or that each founding father was Christian. As I said it is debatable.

[Ardbeg... innit]

Each of the Founding Fathers being a Deist cannot be doubted, whether they be truly Christian is debatable.

[New Mama]

Dec 6, 2012 12:46:46 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Each of the Founding Fathers being a Deist cannot be doubted, whether they be truly Christian is debatable.

Baloney. Only two of the signers of the Declaration were Deist.

www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

[Ardbeg... innit]

... and I could quote sources that indicate that many more were truly Deist but put on the face of being Christian because it was required of them at the time.

This all gets away from the point of the claim that America is a "Christian" nation.

Frankly I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what that means. I regard myself as Christian, Westboro Baptist Church regards itself as Christian. I can tell you with absolute certainty that my interpretation of what it means to be Christian has very little in common with what members of that groups does.

So seriously Anita, there are MILLIONS of interpretations of what it means to be Christian in America alone, one for each person who claims that belief. HOW IN THE WORLD does that scale up from the individual to the national.

My personal interpretation of Christianity demands that I NOT impose my beliefs on anyone else in any form. I believe that doing so is akin to the WORST traits of the Taliban (which I make distinct from Islam in general). There are Christian Taliban members out there in America, and the slippery slope to that disgusting place starts with the insistence that because this is a "Christian Nation" we should feel free for the government to display and support tokens of that religion.

I do not put up outside displays of lights, I find most displays gaudy and ostentatious and not at all related to the "Christ" in "Christmas". Neither do I believe that any government at any level should be using taxpayer dollars to put up any such displays of religion of any kind. The Ten Commandments are not part of the US Constitution and do not belong in any document or office of any governmental official, neither should text from ANY religion.

Why is Christmas a Federal holiday? I dnot know, its not like Congress doesnt take enough time off already. If it were to be done properly, that Holiday should be a personal day, allowing the individual to take off any day they find particular holy or meaningful, NOT a day mandated by "big government"

[Chicago Jake]

Dec 6, 2012 9:51:42 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

I stand corrected, but the first site does state that he has the biggest drinking reputation. I think we can agree that Grant was the Presidential version of WC Fields.

That link does not say that Grant was the fifth biggest drinker. It explicitly states that they are presented in chronological order.

[Chicago Jake]

Dec 6, 2012 9:30:26 GMT -6 New Mama said:

To answer Jake's question....from Wiki.answers.com:

President Ulysses S. Grant declared Christmas a legal holiday in 1870. The bill to make Christmas a holiday was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Burton Chauncey Cook (Illinois). It was approved and passed to the Senate on June 24, 1870.

An Act making the first Day of January, the twenty-fifth Day of December, the fourth Day of July, and Thanksgiving Day, Holidays, within the District of Columbia. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following days, to wit: The first day of January, commonly called New Year's day, the fourth day of July, the twenty-fifth day of December, commonly called Christmas Day, and any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States as a day of public fast or thanksgiving, shall be holidays within the District of Columbia, and shall, for all purposes of presenting for payment or acceptance of the maturity and protest, and giving notice of the dishonor of bills of exchange, bank checks and promissory notes or other negotiable or commercial paper, be treated and considered as is the first day of the week, commonly called Sunday, and all notes, drafts, checks, or other commercial or negotiable paper falling due or maturing on either of said holidays shall be deemed as having matured on the day previous. APPROVED, June 28, 1870 by President Ulysses S. Grant.

I'm sorry, Anita, but you'll have to connect the dots for me. I don't see how this answers my question at all. How do they get away with making Christmas a federal holiday when all other Christian-related concepts are banned from federal property?

[Ardbeg... innit]

Dec 7, 2012 9:08:56 GMT -6 Chicago Jake said:

Dec 6, 2012 9:51:42 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

I stand corrected, but the first site does state that he has the biggest drinking reputation. I think we can agree that Grant was the Presidential version of WC Fields.

That link does not say that Grant was the fifth biggest drinker. It explicitly states that they are presented in chronological order.

Which shows how closely I read that link

[Tex]

Gordon and I might disagree on politics, but we are pretty close on religion. I was born an Episcopalian and like the church and consider myself a Christian, but I certainly don't claim to know all of the details and am skeptical of those who claim such. I generally hold the clergy in low esteem, doubly so if they are frequently seen on television.

[New Mama]

Technically Christmas is not a Federal Holiday. If you read the declaration closely Congress approved and Grant signed a document for Washington DC. Each State has the authority to declare holidays or not. I don’t remember any law making the holiday mandatory either, but I could be wrong.

I don't remember saying the US is a Christian nation. I thought I said that the founding of the country was Christian. I agree that tax dollars should not pay for any religious endeavors, monuments or such.

Frankly I don't consider Christmas religious. Of course I know about the Christ in Christmas but that is not what Christmas is to me. I consider Christmas a spirit; a general feeling of emotional charity, Santa, Rudolf, lighted trees and family. I have never been a member of any organized religious group. I don’t believe in them nor do I agree with the need for the entire clergy hierarchy.

Because of our past history of our Christian founding we have Commandments on old public buildings and In God we Trust is printed on our money. This is tradition based on our history, not what this country is today. According to the so called official sources like the dictionary; Christians are people that believe in Jesus and the teaching of the Bible. We all know that there are millions of interpretations of the Bible but does that make the different beliefs whether as groups or individuals not Christian?

[♥ COVID-19♥]

The real question here is why ISN'T Festivus a federal holiday?

[Ardbeg... innit]

Is it time to dig the National Pole out from the crawl space?

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Yes and please mind the dead girl scout tied to it.

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[Chicago Jake]

Dec 7, 2012 11:13:52 GMT -6 New Mama said:

Technically Christmas is not a Federal Holiday.

Maybe it wasn't at the time Grant signed the bill in a boozy haze, but it is now:
www.opm.gov/Operating_Status_Schedules/fedhol/2012.asp

[Ardbeg... innit]

Dec 7, 2012 12:35:37 GMT -6 ♥ COVID-19♥ said:

Yes and please mind the dead girl scout tied to it.

Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards

The Feats of Strength get a bit out of hand last year?

[New Mama]

Dec 7, 2012 12:37:20 GMT -6 Chicago Jake said:

Dec 7, 2012 11:13:52 GMT -6 New Mama said:

Technically Christmas is not a Federal Holiday.

Maybe it wasn't at the time Grant signed the bill in a boozy haze, but it is now:
www.opm.gov/Operating_Status_Schedules/fedhol/2012.asp

Jake, I think that is a holiday schedule for Federal Employees...on the taxpayer dime of course. It is not a mandated schedule for all US workers.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Dec 7, 2012 13:32:21 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Dec 7, 2012 12:35:37 GMT -6 ♥ COVID-19♥ said:

Yes and please mind the dead girl scout tied to it.

Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards

The Feats of Strength get a bit out of hand last year?

They did for the girl scout, especially when she tried to combine them with The Airing Of Grievances.

[Chicago Jake]

Dec 7, 2012 13:36:20 GMT -6 New Mama said:

Dec 7, 2012 12:37:20 GMT -6 Chicago Jake said:

Maybe it wasn't at the time Grant signed the bill in a boozy haze, but it is now:
www.opm.gov/Operating_Status_Schedules/fedhol/2012.asp

Jake, I think that is a holiday schedule for Federal Employees...on the taxpayer dime of course. It is not a mandated schedule for all US workers.

Exactly. If that doesn't qualify as a "federal holiday," then I don't know what does.

[Tex]

Dec 7, 2012 13:38:07 GMT -6 ♥ COVID-19♥ said:

Dec 7, 2012 13:32:21 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

The Feats of Strength get a bit out of hand last year?

They did for the girl scout, especially when she tried to combine them with The Airing Of Grievances.

What kind of Girl Scout nookies do you prefer, chocolate or thin mint

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Dec 7, 2012 15:21:11 GMT -6 Tex said:

Dec 7, 2012 13:38:07 GMT -6 ♥ COVID-19♥ said:

They did for the girl scout, especially when she tried to combine them with The Airing Of Grievances.

What kind of Girl Scout nookies do you prefer, chocolate or thin mint

I'm into the multi-racial scene, so I prefer macaroons.

[Tex]

Can you dance the macarooña?