Presidential Debate #1

[Robin Hood]

Watching tonight's debate was kinda like watching an errant child get scolded over and over... Obama just hung his head and took it... One of if not THE single most one sided debate victories I have ever witnessed.

Romney came out swinging and kept Obama on the ropes the whole time. Obama came off looking like a total idiot. Romney had facts and numbers and Obama had NOTHING.

Clear choice indeed!!

Romney/Ryan 2012

[Robin Hood]

[Chicago Jake]

I didn't watch it, since I already know how I'm going to vote (against Obama, naturally).

However, I did happen to catch the last half hour on the radio in my car on my way home from work. I thought Obama came off as stuttering, hesitant, and totally out of his element. And I thought Romney came off as confident, up to speed, and totally on his game.

But, given my preconceived opinion, it's highly likely that my observation was biased. As to how the debate will sway the undecided voters (which is the entire point, of of course), I couldn't possibly hazard a guess. Time will tell.

I'm much more interested in the VP debate between Paul Ryan and Crazy Uncle Joe.

[Ardbeg... innit]

After reading the transcript of the debate, it would appear that the far right is so desperate for Romney to win that they actually willing to give him some political room to maneuver. Its the return to Massachusetts Mitts.

{Romney}First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don't have a tax cut of a scale that you're talking about. My view is that we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I'm not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people. High-income people are doing just fine in this economy. They'll do fine whether you're president or I am.

...

First, education. I agree: Education is key, particularly the future of our economy. But our training programs right now, we've got 47 of them, housed in the federal government, reporting to eight different agencies. Overhead is overwhelming. We've got to get those dollars back to the states and go to the workers so they can create their own pathways to get in the training they need for jobs that will really help them.

The second area, taxation, we agree, we ought to bring the tax rates down. And I do, both for corporations and for individuals. But in order for us not to lose revenue, have the government run out of money, I also lower deductions and credits and exemptions, so that we keep taking in the same money when you also account for growth.

The third area, energy. Energy is critical, and the president pointed out correctly that production of oil and gas in the U.S. is up.

...

And finally, with regards to that tax cut, look, I'm not looking to cut massive taxes and to reduce the -- the revenues going to the government. My -- my number-one principal is, there will be no tax cut that adds to the deficit. I want to underline that: no tax cut that adds to the deficit.

Hell, almost sounds like a Democrat, I could vote for that... if I believed that was actually what he was going to do.

Further...

I'm not looking for a $5 trillion tax cut. What I've said is I won't put in place a tax cut that adds to the deficit. That's part one. So there's no economist that can say Mitt Romney's tax plan adds $5 trillion if I say I will not add to the deficit with my tax plan.

Number two, I will not reduce the share paid by high-income individuals. I know that you and your running mate keep saying that and I know it's a popular thing to say with a lot of people, but it's just not the case. Look, I've got five boys. I'm used to people saying something that's not always true, but just keep on repeating it and ultimately hoping I'll believe it. But that -- that is not the case. All right? I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans.

And number three, I will not under any circumstances raise taxes on middle-income families. I will lower taxes on middle-income families. Now, you cite a study. There are six other studies that looked at the study you describe and say it's completely wrong. I saw a study that came out today that said you're going to raise taxes by $3,000 to $4,000 on middle-income families.

There are all these studies out there. But let's get at the bottom line. That is, I want to bring down rates. I want to bring the rates down, at the same time lower deductions and exemptions and credits and so forth, so we keep getting the revenue we need. And you'd think, well, then why lower the rates.

With no clue what those "lower deductions, exemptions and credits" are... My bet is the mortgage deduction is tops on the list and that is why he wont be specific.

Yeah, if this is the REAL Romney, Id consider voting for him, but when I put these statements (and others he made last night) against what he has said in the past, I have NO CLUE what he will do as President.

[Ardbeg... innit]

BTW- Based on what he said, and what has been referred to in the past, it appears that he hates the rich.

[Ardbeg... innit]

On regulation of the economy, he is also sounding for all the world like a Dem

{Romney} Regulation is essential. You can't have a free market work if you don't have regulation. As a businessperson, I had to have -- I need to know the regulations. I needed them there. You couldn't have people opening up banks in their -- in their garage and making loans. I mean, you have to have regulations so that you can have an economy work. Every free economy has good regulation.

...

Dodd-Frank was passed. And it includes within it a number of provisions that I think has some unintended consequences that are harmful to the economy. One is it designates a number of banks as too big to fail, and they're effectively guaranteed by the federal government. This is the biggest kiss that's been given to -- to New York banks I've ever seen. This is an enormous boon for them. There've been 122 community and small banks have closed since Dodd- Frank.


{of course, no specifics, once again}

{Romney} Well, I would repeal and replace it. We're not going to get rid of all regulation. You have to have regulation. And there are some parts of Dodd-Frank that make all the sense in the world. You need transparency, you need to have leverage limits for...

[Chicago Jake]

Gordon, you are completely missing the point.

No true conservative has any love for Romney, nor will they defend his positions or his record. All he is to us at this moment is our only chance to kick Obama out of the White House and take our country back. And since he spanked O's ass last night, and may have taken home a few undecided voters, that is cause to celebrate.

Nothing more.

[Ardbeg... innit]

Oct 4, 2012 7:22:27 GMT -6 Chicago Jake said:

Gordon, you are completely missing the point.

No true conservative has any love for Romney, nor will they defend his positions or his record. All he is to us at this moment is our only chance to kick Obama out of the White House and take our country back. And since he spanked O's ass last night, and may have taken home a few undecided voters, that is cause to celebrate.

Nothing more.

No question about THAT. I prefer reading these things rather than watching, because it takes the "emotional" element out and leaves only the facts of what was said.

There is no question reading the transcript that Obama got his ass handed to him.

What it boils down to, if the Romney that showed up last night is the REAL Romney, how different are they really?

BTW- Still strongly considering Gary Johnson, not because I agree with him that much politically, but that he is the smartest and most honest candidate out there.

[Merlot Joe]

I sill not voting for either obe but Obama was tttthhaattttsss all ffffooolks last night. He spit, spudderd, and shit all over himself.

[New Mama]

I didn’t get a chance to watch the debate last night but hope to see it tonight. Based on what I’ve read so far I think this will help Obama get his more confident or perhaps lazy supporters out to vote. The race ‘appears’ to be in a dead heat.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

I agree that Obama had a poor outing last night, but one thing that no one has mentioned yet (so I'll do it) is Jim Lehrer as the moderator. He sucked. Lehrer was never in control of the debate at any point.

One interesting thing is that because of Mitt's PBS comment, @firedbigbird became a brand new Twitter account with a ton of followers.

[Robin Hood]

I don't care who you are this is FUNNY!!

[♥ COVID-19♥]

[Tex]

The popular shows would not disappear. The market would support them. The dogs would have to go.

[Ardbeg... innit]

Like the market does a good job at getting rid of "the dogs" in commercial broadcast.

[Merlot Joe]

Obama is not stupid. I am sure he will have both barrells loaded and be ready to pull the trigger at the next round. Gary is right this is like a sporting event the best 2 out three for the Presidents and a one game sudden death for the VP's.

Maybe they should let Joe Buck call the next debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Oct 5, 2012 8:59:13 GMT -6 Merlot Joe said:

Obama is not stupid.

John Sununu might disagree with you.

[New Mama]

Government funding is about 15% of the PBS budget. The only thing that will happen to PBS is that you will have to suffer some commercials. PBS needs to compete for viewers and money like the rest of them. I think my tax dollars are needed more elsewhere...like reducing our debt.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Doesn't PBS already show commercials? BTW, if Romney knows that government funding is only 15% (giving him the benefit of the doubt here since that's also his tax rate), why did he bother to bring it up in the debate?

[Ardbeg... innit]

PBS is a conservative icon, has been for decades, even though defunding it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever. In the forest of the deficit, it is a tree that hasnt even made it up to direct sunlight.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Precisely my point -- that's always the first thing they bring up under the subject of cuts, even though it wouldn't have much of an impact in the context of spending or deficit reduction.

[Ardbeg... innit]

[New Mama]

The 15% rate I mentioned did not come from Romney. I picked that number up from an article I read this morning (which I now don't have time to find) that was quoted from some PFS executive. I have also read 12%, as it depends on what year we are talking about.

This defunding of PBS has been on Romney's platform from day one just as all the things that Gordon, Obama and other lefties claim is some other Mitt Romney. I have offered links in the past to Romney's "plan" when 'some' posters here claim Romney doesn't have a plan. He did and he does if you would take the time to look.

As for the PBS defunding not seeing the light of the sun relating to the size of our deficit; that is just stupid. It's a start of something bigger, a way of government. Why should my tax dollars pay for anyone’s entertainment? We should not be funding enterprise like this or energy or study the flow of ketchup. We SHOULD have a robust private market-driven economy doing these things.

It is so very entertaining to hear the lefts excuses for Obama, from Gore’s claim that Obama suffered from the altitude adjustment to the excuse that he was “too busy being the President” to prepare. His campaign adviser blamed the media, saying “they are itching to write the Romney comeback story."

[New Mama]

Oct 5, 2012 5:15:03 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Like the market does a good job at getting rid of "the dogs" in commercial broadcast.

Actually they do. If a show doesn't have viewers, advertisers don't pay for time. Econ 101...but you do know this. No?

[Ardbeg... innit]

Depends Anita.. there are a LOT of shows on TV that are "dogs" and seem to get renewed year after year. I do not equate being a "dog" with financial success. Jersey Shore... need I say more?

[New Mama]

Oct 5, 2012 13:06:53 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

This is beneath you Gordon. Romney specifically said he liked big bird and you stoop to this?

[New Mama]

Oct 5, 2012 14:00:53 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Depends Anita.. there are a LOT of shows on TV that are "dogs" and seem to get renewed year after year. I do not equate being a "dog" with financial success. Jersey Shore... need I say more?

OH, you go by personal preference not financial success. How liberal of you. By that gauge the majority of televised professional sports are dogs in my book.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

OK, game on! I'll see how much lower I can stoop ...

[New Mama]

Oct 5, 2012 14:06:31 GMT -6 ♥ COVID-19♥ said:

OK, game on! I'll see how much lower I can stoop ...

;D ;D I know you can do it! ;D ;D

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Big Bird: This year's Seamus ...