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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 22, 2009 20:30:31 GMT -6
Let's try something new: a discussion group. Since we have some Prisoner fans here, and all 17 episodes are available on-line at: www.amctv.com/videos/the-prisoner-1960s-video/..... how about we watch one episode per week and discuss them? Open spoilers will be a given. If you are interested, watch Episode One (Arrival) this week and post your comments. I'm off to see it now......Jake |
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Nov 23, 2009 9:29:09 GMT -6
Not a bad idea. The more I ponder and rewatch the remake/reboot/sequel/whatever, the more incomplete that series seems, and the more I want to set it aside as an effort that started well, but dug such a deep ditch that it couldnt work its way out in 6 episodes (it poured the foundation and called it a complete building).
"Arrival" it is. I will try to work that in this week. Shouldnt be too difficult to due and a great alternative to Thanksgiving Day Parades.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Nov 25, 2009 12:46:34 GMT -6
Finished watching the 1st episode... just a note, I assume they only had a few badges with numbers on them, but if you look carefully, the maid who is assigned to 6's apartment is #66 (second scene with her its clear), so is the "Admiral" who is playing chess (near the end of the episode).
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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 25, 2009 12:58:06 GMT -6
Interesting observation, Gordon. I'll have to go back and check on that badge number, and the other badges if any.
I noticed that this version (like the new one) both started with a taxi ride ("sorry sir, only local destinations" or something like that), followed by an attempt to buy a map.
I also liked that the TOS version has some very amusing music. "Pop Goes The Weasel" being prominently featured! The new one had only ominous sounding and ultimately forgettable background music.
Also, the Blancmange (my affectionate name for Rover) was much cruder in TOS, and somehow that made it even more menacing. Or maybe it's just my ancient memories of it that make it so much more menacing. Tough to say.
Overall, this was a good "set-up" episode: explains who he is, why he's there (in rough terms), and what the stakes are. Also, he tried a few conventional escape attempts, which let him (and us) know that no ordinary measures are going to get his ass out of the Village. So we know there is some curious stuff coming up.
Finally, I noted that this is a ITC production, which I believe the new one was also.
Oh, and even more finally, I had forgotten how each ep ends: With his face rushing up toward the screen, and then being SLAMMED by the bars of the cage. Love it!
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Nov 25, 2009 18:18:56 GMT -6
Interesting observation, Gordon. I'll have to go back and check on that badge number, and the other badges if any. I noticed that this version (like the new one) both started with a taxi ride ("sorry sir, only local destinations" or something like that), followed by an attempt to buy a map. I also liked that the TOS version has some very amusing music. "Pop Goes The Weasel" being prominently featured! The new one had only ominous sounding and ultimately forgettable background music. Also, the Blancmange (my affectionate name for Rover) was much cruder in TOS, and somehow that made it even more menacing. Or maybe it's just my ancient memories of it that make it so much more menacing. Tough to say. Overall, this was a good "set-up" episode: explains who he is, why he's there (in rough terms), and what the stakes are. Also, he tried a few conventional escape attempts, which let him (and us) know that no ordinary measures are going to get his ass out of the Village. So we know there is some curious stuff coming up. Finally, I noted that this is a ITC production, which I believe the new one was also. Oh, and even more finally, I had forgotten how each ep ends: With his face rushing up toward the screen, and then being SLAMMED by the bars of the cage. Love it! It was a great ending to each episode. I have not checked the ending to the finale, do the bars enclose him at the end of that? McGoohan knew that that was the end of the series, I dont think he would overlook that little point if 6 was actually free. IF that is not included at the conclusion of the last episode, I would say that 6 definitely escaped. If it IS there, I would tend to believe that he did not escape. More on the other points later |
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 25, 2009 22:45:50 GMT -6
I've just finished watching Episode 1 Arrival. I'm afraid I can't add any incisive comments above and beyond what you've already mentioned, so I'll just state my personal reaction:
While I'm glad that you guys seemed to like the new version, I was never really able to get into it the same degree. I guess it's because the original version was so stylized in both its writing, direction and -- especially -- the acting by McGoohan, anything else would pale in comparison. It was so ahead of its time, yet still popular ... and yet feels as though it could've been made in the present day.
One observation: given the historical time frame, I would have to wonder if the idea of being a prisoner in the village was some kind of an allegory for communism? With today's frame of reference, I would consider it more in line with being part of corporate America -- or any large corporation anywhere, where you become imprisoned and impersonal. In TOS, he went off at the suggestion of politics, which is why I made the connection with communism. Looking at it 40 years later -- with drastically different life experiences -- I would say it could parallel working in any large machine... whether it's government or a large company.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Nov 26, 2009 7:19:42 GMT -6
The beginning of TOS is about 4 minutes of genius director work. Completely through nonverbal means McGoohan presents an intense story (the thunder claps are so well timed that hearing a man shouting would have been distracting by comparison), but does so in a way that the viewer is withheld all the details that eventually makes the series great.
We know 6 is superpissed but we dont know why. It would be easy to assume that he is a good guy agent who has found out something that goes against his sense of right and wrong, BUT he could just as easily be a double agent getting out before his cover is blown. We also have no idea which side the person he is yelling at is on.
It is stated very clearly in the initial interview with 2 that 6 knows extremely valuable information. So valuable that his captors cannot kill him because the information is more valuable than 6's life. A point that 6 learns to take advantage of later on.
Every element of the captors true identity is blurred. 6 meets an old colleague who is actually working for his captors, German and French are spoken, both American and British English is heard, and the term "comrade" is used. Just about every element of Cold War era geopolitics is tossed at the viewer, either directly in front of 6 or behind the scenes. It is made clear that it is impossible to know from appearances only who is a captor and who is a prisoner. Even though the viewer has more information than 6 on this, we are no better off at making a decision about his situation. And, from all elements of the discussion neither 6 nor 2 seem to know who the other is really working for, and thus the stakes are set.
In the initial interview of 6 by 2, I caught something new. 2 is asking questions of 6, and on at least two occasions says something to the effect of "one needs to know these things" (third person "one", rhetorical question) or is it "One needs to know these things" (proper noun "One", statement of fact)? To a new viewer, the first case would seem obvious with foreknowledge of whats ahead, the second meaning can be assumed.
Jake- I did notice all of the parallels you mentioned between the new series and the TOS. Regrettably, that was about the limit of the parallels and where the new series veers off into the unknown. Unfortunately, it absolutely ties the new to the old and forces rigorous comparison. Had those, and a few other details, been left out or rewritten, the new series could have come out as something completely different and been much more satisfying on its own accord.
Beeb- In modern context, another way to look at The Prisoner is in terms of online social networks. In Facebook, you are part of a "Village" that you make for yourself, but everything you add to it becomes part of the knowledge base about you, and it never really goes away, warts and all, and can be used against you later on when looking for jobs, etc.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 26, 2009 20:50:22 GMT -6
By jove, Throckmorton, old chum, I do believe you're onto something there!
Although to be honest, I only have indirect knowledge of how Facebook works since I'm not a member, but have acquaintances and co - workers who are, so I can't say for certain that I can either completely understand or see the comparison.
I think the comparison with government or large corporations probably resonates for me because the government only knows us by our Social Security # and the employer only knows us as our Employee ID # (which can often be the very same Social Security Number).
So, to me, the creators are saying we are all prisoners in a village we have -- in one form or another -- manufactured. You either learn how to make the best of that imprisonment or you don't. As in TOS, we see that some people did adapt and simply abandoned the idea of escape -- a type of social conformance to a given norm.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Nov 27, 2009 12:14:29 GMT -6
A parallel to consider... the unknown captors of The Prisoner and SPECTRE from the Bond novels. An apolitical organization, use of numbers to identify people.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 27, 2009 20:27:16 GMT -6
Apolitical, perhaps, but perhaps a mega-corporation in its own fictional universe?
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