Can Bush rebuild bridges in Europe?

[Chicago Jake]

As for the "no empty seats" observation, don't let that fool you. Just because all planes that you fly on are full doesn't mean the airlines are at capacity. When they have two flights between the same cities that are only half full, they cancel one (in the short run) and eliminate one from the schedule (in the long run). Those "empty seats" are still around, but they never leave the hangar......Jake

[Harrybutt]

I think that was real close to my point. Thanks for the aid in clarifycation. I like your version better ;D

[That English Guy]

Bob is right, people do want to get from A to B but sometimes, like it or not, they have to go via C to get there. For example when we fly to Dallas if we can't get seats on one of the very few direct flights from London to DFW then our priority becomes to get to the USA, and then onwards to Dallas, and this is the market the A380 is aimed at, moving large numbers of people from country to country, not shuttling people around the USA in competition with Southwest. The intercontinental market is growing and is expected to exploded over the coming years, especially from the Asia - Pacific countries and it's simple economics that airlines will gain from flying larger planes that can fly farther and carry more people on these routes. Boeing saw this too and were planning to develop their own 600 seat airliner, but lost their nerve and cancelled their plans when an expected order didn't materialize. The A380 will also make less of a contribution to the growing problem of congestion at airports, more than 50 of which around the world are already preparing for its arrival in 2006. The 7E7 would increase the number of flights and therefore congestion. People may well simply want to fly from A to B, but when flying long haul that might not be what they get in future. IMHO the A380 will be a great success and will be built for many years to come.

Source : www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1000163.shtml

Bloomberg News quotes Chris Avery, a JPMorgan analyst, in a Jan. 11th report to investors: ``The aircraft should be a 'game changer' in the long-haul market. Increasing congestion at major airports, such as London Heathrow, and an ever-greater focus on costs, means that the A380 will deliver valuable benefits to its operators.''

According to Avery, the 747, with 413 seats, needs 290 passengers to break even. The A380, with 555 seats, needs 323 people to break even, meaning it has another 227 seats available to sell at a profit--85 percent more than the 747-400.

Simon

[Guest]

samNsi said:

France and Germany feel much the same way about George Bush, that's what caused the big division in the first place. IMHO both parties have been at fault, Chirac and Schröeder have done their best to antagonise the US, whilst the rhetoric coming from Washington has done little to placate them, until now...


Simon

PARIS, France (CNN) -- The French foreign minister has called for "a new trans-Atlantic relationship" between the United States and its European allies.

Too many challenges face the world for the two not to work together in addressing them, Michel Barnier told CNN, but said France will not bow to the will of the United States.

"We are allies. Alliance is not submission."
"We have to work together in the broader sense, and probably in what I call a new trans-Atlantic relationship, and get in the habit to talk more to each other -- even when we don't agree, because that happens -- to talk more about politics," he said Wednesday.

www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/01/19/france.us/

it may be time to stop the French bashing: ‘freedom fries”; lucky the U.S. did not send back the Statue Of Liberty to France, as well as delete Lafayette from U.S. history:

www.xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/lafy-4.htm

Or deleting, the greatest insights of the U.S. by the French intellectual Tocqueville:

GREATEST DANGER

"Democratic republics [are] liable to perish from the misuse of their power, ...not by impotence.

CORRUPTION

"In aristocracies rulers sometimes endeavor to corrupt the people. In democracies rulers frequently show themselves to be corrupt. In the former their vices are directly prejudicial to the morality of the people. In the latter their indirect influence is still more pernicious."

MONEY

"...I know of no other country where love of money has such a grip on men's hearts or where stronger scorn is expressed for the theory of permanent equality of property."

REVOLUTION

"If there ever are great revolutions there, they will be caused by the presence of the blacks upon American soil. That is to say, it will not be the equality of social conditions but rather their inequality which may give rise thereto."

CONSTITUENTS

"The electors see their representative not only as a legislator for the state but also as the natural protector of local interests in the legislature; indeed, they almost seem to think that he has a power of attorney to represent each constituent, and they trust him to be as eager in their private interests as in those of the country."

ASSOCIATIONS

"Americans of all ages, all stations of life, and all types of disposition are forever forming associations...In democratic countries knowledge of how to combine is the mother of all other forms of knowledge; on its progress depends that of all the others."

NEWSPAPERS

"I am far from denying that newspapers in democratic countries lead citizens to do very ill-considered things in common; but without newspapers there would be hardly any common action at all. So they mend many more ills than they cause."

SPEECHES IN CONGRESS

"There is hardly a congressman prepared to go home until he has at least one speech printed and sent to his constituents, and he won't let anybody interrupt his harangue until he has made all his useful suggestions about the 24 states of the Union, and especially the district he represents."

JOURNALISTS

"They certainly are not great writers, but they speak their country's language and they make themselves heard."

WOMEN AND MEN

"In America, more than anywhere else in the world, care has been taken constantly to trace clearly distinct spheres of action for the two sexes, and both are required to keep in step, but along paths that are never the same."

TOWN GOVERNMENT

"In towns it is impossible to prevent men from assembling, getting excited together and forming sudden passionate resolves. Towns are like great meeting houses with all the inhabitants as members. In them the people wield immense influence over their magistrates and often carry their desires into execution without intermediaries."

www.roadtopeace.org/resources/governance/tocqueville.htm

Perhaps Rice got it right when she said:

“This is a time for a reinvigoration of our longstanding partnership and friendship to turn a new page and to take advantage of the many opportunities before us,” said Rice, recalling that France was the United States' first ally during the days of the American Revolution.


64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:D4735Q7rgEQJ:www.amb-usa.fr/events/2005/rice/quaidorsay.htm++%22michel+barnier%22+revolution&hl=en

[Chicago Jake]

Hi, LOU!!.......Jake

[Tex]

Guest-Guest said:

...lucky the U.S. did not send back the Statue Of Liberty to France...

... Or give France back to the Nazis.

[Merlot Joe]

Tex said:

... Or give France back to the Nazis.

The sounds like a great idea.


You know they no longer allow fireworks in France.
They were made illegal because every time someone set some off, the French Government Surrendered.

Joe.

[Chicago Jake]

Guest-Guest said:

.....lucky the U.S. did not send back the Statue Of Liberty to France......

No, but we had to chisel the leg and armpit hair off it to make it socially presentable.... ;D ......Jake

[Irish Eyes being Political]

Back on thread, it looks like Europe doesn't really matter much any more. Like an old whore, she was great for a while, but is no longer important. CHINA is the lady who is reaching puberty (again, after growing old and wise, and getting now their second (or tenth) wind), and look out world!!! This chick might have some balls!!! At least with Europe we have somewhat common values, language, connections. CHINA doesn't give a shit about us, and may well soon use her size and control and might against us.

What American people don't realize, perhaps because we are only taught in school about America, and how darned wonderful we are, is that we are but a puppy, and a recalcitrant one at that, and China has a long and storied history of being world leaders, and can flex their muscle someday, again.

World History really should be reintroduced into out schools. After all, one who does not know the history is destined to repeat it.

[Harrybutt]

Iyam confident that Mr. Bush can rebuild anything as long as he has access to the national credit card. I'd much rather him be sending our taxpayer money overseas anyhoo...

[Tex]

Guest-Irish said:

...World History really should be reintroduced into out schools...

They taught it here. We had to learn all of the Chinese dynasties right down to Mao. Surely if they taught that out here in the oil field, more civilized places would have learned much more than that.

[Yes]

Guest-Irish said:

Back on thread, it looks like Europe doesn't really matter much any more. Like an old whore, she was great for a while, but is no longer important. CHINA is the lady who is reaching puberty (again, after growing old and wise, and getting now their second (or tenth) wind), and look out world!!! This chick might have some balls!!! At least with Europe we have somewhat common values, language, connections. CHINA doesn't give a shit about us, and may well soon use her size and control and might against us.

What American people don't realize, perhaps because we are only taught in school about America, and how darned wonderful we are, is that we are but a puppy, and a recalcitrant one at that, and China has a long and storied history of being world leaders, and can flex their muscle someday, again...

What Irish may be referring to is:

The rise of China and India . Some food for thought:


“Great powers on the brink of decline typically have incoherent and
foredoomed strategies to ward off their fate, simply because no better
strategies are available. "I have not become His Majesty's first minister
to preside over the dissolution of the British empire," Winston Churchill
harrumphed in 1940 -- but from the Spanish armada of 1588 to the
Anglo-French invasion of Egypt in 1956, the flailing efforts of paramount
powers to ward off impending demotion from "superpower" status have
generally just hastened the process.

How might this apply to the senior people inside the Bush
administration? Some of them clearly believe exactly what they say, no
matter how simplistic and delusional it may appear to outsiders, but others
genuinely are strategic thinkers. These people will not speak in
traditional power-political terms in public -- instead they will use the
"terrorist threat" or any other excuse that comes to hand to justify their
strategies -- but they know about the coming erosion of American power and
they will be desperately seeking ways to avoid it.

Is the invasion of Iraq, and the whole project of resurrecting Pax
Americana that lies behind it, just such an attempt to head off impending
relative decline by putting the US back in the global driving seat, as much
the "leader of the free world" as it was in the halcyon days of the Cold
War? Very likely. Will it work? Don't be silly. It never works:
economics rules, and there is no way of stopping China and India from
catching up with the current Lone Superpower short of nuking their entire
economies.

And no: I don't think they'd do that. But their little adventure
will almost certainly have the long-term effect of hastening America's
relative decline. That sort of strategy usually does.”<br>

www.gwynnedyer.net/articles/Gwynne%20Dyer%20article_%20%20Grand%20Strategy.txt

LOU

[That English Guy]

Guest-Irish said:

Back on thread, it looks like Europe doesn't really matter much any more. Like an old whore, she was great for a while, but is no longer important

Far from being unimportant this 'old whore' will grow in importance. Militarily the European Union may be nowhere near as strong as the USA, though some factions in Europe want that to ch-ch-change, but with economic and monetary unification the combined economies of Europe are a similar size to America's, and growing. Germany, Britain, France, Italy and Spain are five of the world's top ten strongest economies, and with a population of over 500 million people, the majority of whom now share a single currency, Europe is one of the most dynamic economic areas in the world and there is enormous potential for continued economic growth and prosperity. As the eastern European countries are further integrated Europe will continue down the path to becoming a federal superstate and IMHO it is in the best interests of Europe and the USA that we remain allies in the face of China eventually catching up with and overtaking the USA, whose global influence will decline. The French and German refusal to join the USA in Iraq has changed the dynamic of the US - Europe relationship forever, but hopefully that ch-ch-change will in time prove to be a positive one.

Simon

[YES]

Tex said:

... Or give France back to the Nazis.

As I have said in the past on this and the other board;

After Japan attacked the U.S. fleet in Pearl Harbour , the German’s biggest mistake was to declare war on the U.S. and thus commit U.S. troops to aid the allies in Europe, which arguably the U.S. would not have done as the U.S. policy was “Isolationism”.

And yet prior to that:one day after Germany invaded the Soviet Union, the U.S. were “in the war” as it had an alliance with the Soviets [notwithstanding] THAT THEY were communists, and U.S. business interests did not like communism.

President Harry Truman said:


"If we see that Germany is winning, we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning, we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious in any circumstances."

William Blum writes:

"Much propaganda mileage has been squeezed out of the Soviet-German treaty of 1939, made possible only by entirely ignoring the fact that the Russians were forced into the pact by the repeated refusal of the Western powers, particularly the United States and Great Britain, to unite with Moscow in a stand against Hitler; as they likewise refused to come to the aid of the socialist-oriented Spanish government under siege by the German, Italian and Spanish fascists." ("Killing Hope")


Reminds me of the joke:

During a propaganda tour, President Bush visits a school to explain his politics to kids. He invites the kids to ask him questions. Bobby stands up and tells him "Mr. President, I got 3 questions":

1. How come, that although the count of votes was not in your favor, you still won the election?

2. Why do you want to attack Iraq without an imminent reason?

3. Don't you also consider the bombing of Hiroshima the biggest terrorist attack of all times?


Before the president can answer, the recess bell rings, and the kids leave the room. After they came back, Bush invited them again to ask questions. Joey stands up and tells him "Mr. President, I got 5 questions":


1. How come, that although the count of votes was not in your favor, you still won the election?

2. Why do you want to attack Iraq without an imminent reason?

3. Don't you also consider the bombing of Hiroshima the biggest terrorist attack of all times?

4. Why did the recess bell ring 20 minutes early?

5. Where's Bobby?

SEE:

pnews.org/portal/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=5


LOU

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Guest-Irish said:

Like an old whore, she was great for a while, but is no longer important.

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly congratulate myself on having the super - human self - restraint to keep me from responding to this comment.

That said, I now return you to our political debate.

[Merlot Joe]

Bukkake said:

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly congratulate myself on having the super - human self - restraint to keep me from responding to this comment.

Personally, I think you should go for it.

Joe.

[Chicago Jake]

An appropriate response would be something along the lines of: "You leave my mother out of this!"......Jake

[Merlot Joe]

on May 2nd, 2005, 7:38pm, Guest-Irish Eyes being Political wrote:Like an old whore, she was great for a while, but is no longer important.

No a more appropriate response would be." Does your mother know you are talking about her this way"?


Joe.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Chicago said:

An appropriate response would be something along the lines of: "You leave my mother out of this!"

Of course you realize with an attitude like that, we'll never be able to rebuild bridges in Europe.

[Chicago Jake]

That's why London Bridge is Falling Down.

(By the way, Simon: IS London bridge falling down? Or have I been misled since childhood?)

.......Jake

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Chicago said:

That's why London Bridge is Falling Down.

And why exactly did it take 4 pages on this thread before somebody used that reference?

[Harrybutt]

Chicago said:

That's why London Bridge is Falling Down.

(By the way, Simon: IS London bridge falling down? Or have I been misled since childhood?)

.......Jake

I thought the London Bridge had been moved to Arizona

[Tex]

Harrybutt said:

I thought the London Bridge had been moved to Arizona

...and that eliminated most of the fog problem on the bridge.

[IE clarifying political opin]

Simon - NOT to denigrate Europe in general, and certainly NOT a jab at you and yours, just pointing out, pretty much as an example (I included US) (perhaps with rough words, but that is what popped into my mind. Sorry) what I learned in World History -- that each 'dynasty' has its heyday, which may last an eon or a generation or two. Great Britain had a great long run of world domination; America has had a similar (if more concentrated, time-wise) run of world domination. China was once THE world power, for many more years than America has even existed. Their communism set them back a few or a thousand years, but they may notice that their chance is coming up soon (opportunistic? maybe). India is also in the running - with all of our outsourcing, they may soon realize that they can run our companies WITHOUT us. It is common knowledge that our military is stretched mighty thin lately. I don't think China will engage us in a military sense (lucky for us) but economically, they are all set. Our government is otherwise engaged, our business "overhead" is out of control, which is directly related to our property values/costs, which is out of control.

Our present course frightens me, but I am heartened by how well Great Britain weathered thier retreat from the world stage. You are STILL Great Britain, just that your passport is good in many fewer countries than it used to be.

Cross-threading here, but here is the last line of a very relevant book:

'That is well put,' replied Candide, 'but we must cultivate out OWN garden.' [emphasis added] -- this written by Voltaire in the late 1700s.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Tex said:

...and that eliminated most of the fog problem on the bridge.

What the hell were all those French doing there?

===

Edited to add:

Sorry, I misread that -- thought it said, "frog problem".

[IE responding to political]

Tex said:

They taught it here. We had to learn all of the Chinese dynasties right down to Mao. Surely if they taught that out here in the oil field, more civilized places would have learned much more than that.

Wellll...., in my small town I don't know how civilized we are -- believe it or not there are many that I grew up with and met since that have never been to the "big city" -- they read the NY Post and believe that "the big city" is full of muggers and rapists. AND, we (I?) didn't learn it. I remember my junior year of high school we had a beautiful, young black woman as our teacher. With a HUGE chip on her shoulder. Boy oh boy did we learn about the horrors of slavery. I felt guilty just for being white!!! I will be the first to admit I didn't pay a whole lot of attention in High School, but I KNOW I couldn't have missed an entire continent/culture. And I do remember the epiphany of World History 101 in college. Sad, isn't it?

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Guest-IE said:

... they read the NY Post and believe that "the big city" is full of muggers and rapists.

Hey! Don't forget us perverts, too! Damn, I always feel so forgotten ...

[Chicago Jake]

I love thread drift.......Jake

[That English Guy]

Chicago said:

That's why London Bridge is Falling Down.

(By the way, Simon: IS London bridge falling down? Or have I been misled since childhood?)

London Bridge fell down at least twice and was badly damaged by a couple of fires. This is the origin of the song :

The present version of the song "London Bridge is Falling Down - My Fair Lady " though based on the old Norse saga, was composed in the 13th century when the unpopular Queen Eleanor was given the tolls from the bridge as a present from her husband, Henry III, in 1269. She was a prolific spender and put all the toll money to her own personal use instead of spending it on the bridge.

Needless to say, the bridge fell into serious disrepair. The old song then became reborn as one of angry sarcastic criticism against the Queen, "London Bridge is Falling down, my Fair Lady". The bridge finally returned to the control of the City of London in 1281, but that winter with heavy ice pushing against the bridge, the ill-maintained structure suffered severe damage with five arches collapsing into the water, and a temporary timber bridge had to be built for that part.

www.oldlondonbridge.com/earlymediaeval.shtml

Simon

[That English Guy]

Harrybutt said:

I thought the London Bridge had been moved to Arizona

Robert P. McCulloch paid $2,460,000 for London Bridge in 1968 and shipped it piece by piece to Arizona. But he doesn't quite have all of it, some of it was kept by the Britiish Government in lieu of taxes that he failed to pay.

www.outwestnewspaper.com/images/LonBr.jpg
[/img]

It's claimed here that he thought he was buying Tower Bridge, below.



It's hardly likely that this is true but is has become part of common folklore.

Simon