Economy wah wahs

[Christinko]

The media is doing lots of "see how this family is horribly affected by the down economy" stories.

This one made me angry; the story inspired no pity from me:

The family is making $103,000--husband is a buyer at Mark Shale and the wifey makes $20K doing piddly stuff. They have about 3-4 kids, I can't remember. Hubby loses his job suddenly as Mark Shale files for bankruptcy.

OH MY GAWD! They IMMEDIATELY get Medicaid coverage because he couldn't afford Cobra. Family members give them loans. They get FOOD STAMPS, etc.

All this because they had ZERO $ in the bank and were mortgaged and credit carded up to the hilt.

He DOES get a job--a comparable one! And only 6 weeks later! But he has to leave Chicago and buy in Arkansas...the family will follow this summer. wah wah wah....

So this story says to me:
--They are stupid asses to not have saved one penny of their excellent income.
--They are stupid asses to air their dirty laundry in the media.
--They are stupid asses to have planned so badly for their kids (guess they don't have college funds started either, even though all their kids were in PRIVATE school.)
--The gov't supports stupid asses.

Makes me nuts. I want to read stories about people who have done everything right and are still screwed by the economy. I feel no sympathy for these jamokes...and my tax dollars PAID for their jamoke lifetime decisions.

I say they should have had to rely on the kindness of friends and family or charities such as their church. BUT NO! Daddy USA jumped in to bail that family out too.

Dumb asses all around. And this was a front page story. Oh please. So not worthy. Gack! Spit spit.

[Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III]

May 17, 2009 21:36:42 GMT -6 Christinko said:

Dumb asses all around. And this was a front page story. Oh please. So not worthy. Gack! Spit spit.

Agreed.

I wonder who they voted for POTUS this past election?

All kidding aside, it seems they were doing pretty well but got caught up in the hooplah of the past decade and made no plans for when things went south.

Obama will rescue them!!

[Merlot Joe]

May 17, 2009 23:00:17 GMT -6 Exildo Wonsetler Briggs III said:

All kidding aside, it seems they were doing pretty well but got caught up in the hooplah of the past decade and made no plans for when things went south.

As with a fair portion of the American public they thought this trip to OZ was going last forever. What goes up must come down and it will or it has!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was a story here about a six months ago about a Real Estate Agent who could no longer make a living selling Real Estate and had to get a job making pizza at a local Roundtable Pizza Polar. He blamed everyone for his misfortune except for himself. I had no pity for him.


Joe.

[Chicago Jake]

Actually, making pizza isn't so bad. I did it in college. Looking back, it's about my favorite job I ever had!

[innit Geezer]

May 17, 2009 21:36:42 GMT -6 Christinko said:

The family is making $103,000--

$103,000 is a lot of money? For a family with kids? Food, clothing, shelter, savings for a rainy day and college? 4 or 5 people?

That's more in line with "barely surviving" and if they payed into the system why shouldn't they get temporary help if they need it?

[wareagle]

May 18, 2009 4:50:08 GMT -6 innit Geezer said:

May 17, 2009 21:36:42 GMT -6 Christinko said:

The family is making $103,000--

$103,000 is a lot of money? For a family with kids? Food, clothing, shelter, savings for a rainy day and college? 4 or 5 people?

That's more in line with "barely surviving" and if they payed into the system why shouldn't they get temporary help if they need it?

The key word here is temporary, not like the millions we have living off the taxpayers when it should be strictly a temporary situation. Get a job and support yourself.

[Christinko]

In Chicago, an income of $103,000 is good (+ her $20K).

I make under $30K a year and I do fine by myself. Last year I took 8 vacations and I eat in nice restaurants regularly. (This year I've taken no vacations because of the economy.) Since I was 20, I saved between 1/4 and 1/3 of my earnings and worked more than one job until I was 40, when I went into semi-retirement.

Sure I got hit by the economy and lost about half my money so far (but I haven't sold so I haven't lost, right!?), but I'm still better off than most in savings amounts and can still afford to live in my home (same county as that family's) and eat out.

This particular family insisted on living in one of the most expensive suburbs here, had all the kids in private schools (when the public ones in that suburb are excellent), and was maxed out on their credit cards and had ZERO financial cushion. That all just sounds foolish to me.

Gary, I guess it's perspective then?

[wareagle]

Millions of Americans live on the edge of their credit, I did at one time and it was great getting out from under the gun. It's wrong for them to live that way, it's irresponsible, but as Gary pointed out if they paid into the system then why shouldn't they use it if they really need it just so long as it's a temporary thing and not their lively hood from here on.

Perspective, common sense and judgment should come into play when we look at what kind of a salary we make and decide on how and what to spend it on.

[Chicago Jake]

I could give them pointers on how to live economically. It comes from a long life of living like a cheap bastard.

For one thing, don't waste your money on real furniture. Cinder blocks and old boards make fine shelves, sofas, and tables. And you can generally get them for free from construction sites if you don't mind shopping at night. If you want to put on airs, though, you can always use old bench-style car seats for living room furniture.

Dinners out can be very cheap if you know where to eat. I like going to fancy business hotels around 7 or 8 pm. Just take the elevator to the top floor, and walk up and down the hall. People put their trays outside the door when they're finished, and you'd be amazed what they don't eat! Work your way down one floor at a time. By the time you get back to the lobby, you can easily satisfy a family of four or five.

Wedding presents can be given for the price of a card. Get a nice card from Walgreen's, go to the wedding, and hang around the table in the back where all the gifts are stacked up. Be sure to have a roll of Scotch tape in your pocket. When nobody is looking, yank the card off the biggest, fanciest looking present, and tape your card to it.

If you are going on a date and want to bring flowers, swing by a cemetery first. People leave nice bouquets just lying around.

I should write a book. I got a million of them........Jake (Certified Cheap Bastard)

[Ardbeg... innit]

Dont forget Jake, if youre lucky enough to get someone to pay for your ticket to a sports event, check underneath the chairs in the stadium after the game is over, theres enough nachos, popcorn and hot dog entrails for a month of snacking, just ready for the taking.

Edited: Oh BTW Jake, I got you a book for your birthday...

[wareagle]

May 18, 2009 10:06:22 GMT -6 Ardbeg... innit said:

Dont forget Jake, if youre lucky enough to get someone to pay for your ticket to a sports event, check underneath the chairs in the stadium after the game is over, theres enough nachos, popcorn and hot dog entrails for a month of snacking, just ready for the taking.

You might even find some slightly used toothpicks.

[Merlot Joe]

May 18, 2009 9:56:02 GMT -6 Chicago Jake said:

Dinners out can be very cheap if you know where to eat. I like going to fancy business hotels around 7 or 8 pm. Just take the elevator to the top floor, and walk up and down the hall. People put their trays outside the door when they're finished, and you'd be amazed what they don't eat! Work your way down one floor at a time. By the time you get back to the lobby, you can easily satisfy a family of four or five.

...Jake (Certified Cheap Bastard)

Remind me if I ever get to Chicago not to go out to dinner with you.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Joe

[Kawaii Kaiju]

It's interesting to me to see where people's compassion for their fellow humans ends and where their mockery begins.

Luckily the family in question only had to subsist for 6 weeks, and perhaps this incident will be the wakeup call they needed about savings, etc.

Zilla (not that many people posting in this thread have ever claimed to have compassion for their fellow man)

[Kawaii Kaiju]

May 18, 2009 14:52:30 GMT -6 Kawaii Kaiju said:

It's interesting to me to see where people's compassion for their fellow humans ends and where their mockery begins.

Luckily the family in question only had to subsist for 6 weeks, and perhaps this incident will be the wakeup call they needed about savings, etc.

Zilla (not that many people posting in this thread have ever claimed to have compassion for their fellow man)

It has been brought to my attention that the above statement could be considered a "slam". That is not my intent. Everyone (including myself) has boundaries, and I honestly am interested in where people set them.

Zilla (hoping to keep the legal department happy)

[Chicago Jake]

I thought it was a slam, and I was going to congratulate you for it. But now I have to give you a slam for trying to soften your slam! C'mere...... SLAM!!!!

[innit Geezer]

May 18, 2009 8:49:35 GMT -6 Christinko said:

In Chicago, an income of $103,000 is good (+ her $20K).

You said a family surviving on 103, not 123 but still, that's not enough for living in any radius of NYC or most of the eastern seaboard.

I make under $30K a year and I do fine by myself. Last year I took 8 vacations and I eat in nice restaurants regularly. (This year I've taken no vacations because of the economy.) Since I was 20, I saved between 1/4 and 1/3 of my earnings and worked more than one job until I was 40, when I went into semi-retirement.

What? How? This makes no sense. Chris, utility bills are $650 for a standard home or apartment. R.E. taxes are $8,000 minimum, mine are $13,000 for a modest 3 bedroom home, that's typical for hundreds of miles around here. 8 vacations? Savings?

[/size]

This particular family insisted on living in one of the most expensive suburbs here, had all the kids in private schools (when the public ones in that suburb are excellent), and was maxed out on their credit cards and had ZERO financial cushion. That all just sounds foolish to me.

Again, you can't save making 103 with children unless you are living in south Florida or some other non heat demanding area (I choose Florida because that would eliminate any gas bill)

Gary, I guess it's perspective then?[/quote]

I don't think so, it seems so black and white to me, I'm lost at your math and perspective. It cost me (and everyone else!) $50 and more to get to work each day when going into the city.

Chris, rents are $1800 at absolute bottom for a family. Heat is $500, water, cable for web is $250. My kids submit homework on line to school, it's required. What about insurances, clothes, cars, food ......

[Tex]

May 18, 2009 19:12:25 GMT -6 innit Geezer said:

May 18, 2009 8:49:35 GMT -6 Christinko said:

You said a family surviving on 103, not 123 but still, that's not enough for living in any radius of NYC or most of the eastern seaboard.



What? How? This makes no sense. Chris, utility bills are $650 for a standard home or apartment. R.E. taxes are $8,000 minimum, mine are $13,000 for a modest 3 bedroom home, that's typical for hundreds of miles around here. 8 vacations? Savings?

[/size]




Again, you can't save making 103 with children unless you are living in south Florida or some other non heat demanding area (I choose Florida because that would eliminate any gas bill)

Gary, I guess it's perspective then?[/quote]

I don't think so, it seems so black and white to me, I'm lost at your math and perspective. It cost me (and everyone else!) $50 and more to get to work each day when going into the city.

Chris, rents are $1800 at absolute bottom for a family. Heat is $500, water, cable for web is $250. My kids submit homework on line to school, it's required. What about insurances, clothes, cars, food ...... [/quote]

I love to visit New York, but I swear that if I had been raised there, I would move. There are so many layers of costs that the average person struggles to live. There is a better way to live. JMHO.

[innit Geezer]

Tex, I agree. My trusty real estate agent tells me that people used to leave for the south and come back (for various reasons) now they don't come back. I think (but not sure) NY has a slight negative population growth. I do know that Florida actually does at this time, I heard that on NPR last week.

[♥ COVID-19♥]

May 18, 2009 19:29:11 GMT -6 Tex said:

I love to visit New York, but I swear that if I had been raised there, I would move. There are so many layers of costs that the average person struggles to live. There is a better way to live. JMHO.

As a lifelong NY'er, I wouldn't necessarily disagree -- living here basically squeezes the middle class out of existence in NYC. To put things in perspective for some people, here is a recent article from The NY Daily News:

N.Y.C. so costly you need to earn six figures to make middle class

A new report shows just how ugly — and expensive — New York City can be, especially for the middle class, squeezed by skyrocketing living costs and stagnant wages.

The study, released Thursday by the Center for an Urban Future, shows that New York City is hands-down the most expensive place to live in the country.

Among the findings:

• A New Yorker would have to make $123,322 a year to have the same standard of living as someone making $50,000 in Houston.
  
• In Manhattan, a $60,000 salary is equivalent to someone making $26,092 in Atlanta.
  
• You knew it was expensive to live in Manhattan, but Queens? The report tagged Queens the fifth most expensive urban area in the country.
  
• The average monthly rent in New York is $2,801, 53% higher than San Francisco, the second most expensive city in the country.

“Income levels that would enable a very comfortable lifestyle in other locales barely suffice to provide the basics in New York City,” the report concludes.

I have to agree with Gary -- someone's math appears off. Based on the above figures, I'm slightly below middle class and just barely able to make it to the next paycheck, never mind setting aside money to save.

[innit Geezer]

I haven't saved since I was 12 years old with a paper route, mowing lawns and detailing cars. Basically, I stepped forward through business deals to make progress (and go backwards).

[Tex]

I find New York to be very expensive. IMHO, the powerful unions, while giving many people high nominal incomes, have (along with bloated local governments) created layers of costs that get passed along to the cost of living. It isn't just the high taxes and cost of living. The local governments are hamstrung, IMHO, and the infrastructure is old and tired. If you are already wealthy, New York offers many attractions. It would be tough to start from scratch there. I don't think that I could do what I did here if I had been in that high cost environment.

New York is probably the finest natural harbor in the US and has everything going for it but has strayed from what made it great and is drowning in its own indulgence IMHO.

Now ducking under the desk for incoming.

[innit Geezer]

May 18, 2009 20:47:53 GMT -6 Tex said:

Now ducking under the desk for incoming.

;D ;D ;D!

That was great and no need to duck (why a no chicken?), it's true. The bloated bureaucracy builds cost, NY drowns in it (and to a point thrives on it).

Just some FYI and not some sort of ground breaking point;

I know many, many people who moved just out of reach of N.Y.C. for lower living costs even with the lesser wages but the opportunities and pay turned out to be so low, they moved back.

I say this once in while when referring to living here: "I feel like I'm on a tread mill and I can't get off".

[♥ COVID-19♥]

Tex, NYC is the engine that drives New York State and, somewhat, the entire country -- assuming, of course, you still buy into the idea that NYC (and not DC) is still the financial capital. Given the size of the city, I don't know that the local government is necessarily "bloated", so you'll have to explain that one to me. While I agree that the wealthy can (and do) thrive here, there nevertheless continue to be many who move here from many parts of the U.S. as young people to try to carve out a life -- of course, whether or not they stay here is another matter. I think spending a short amount of time living in NYC is more of a romantic dream for some and certainly not something most folks can handle for a lifetime, unless you're from here originally (and even then ... )

[Chicago Jake]

As a frequent visitor to NYC, but not a resident, I consider myself a marginally informed, but unbiased, observer. It seems to me to be a very well run city, and I can't find any reason to call it "bloated" or indulgent. It is very expensive, to be sure, but I liken that to gravity on a very large planet: the very weight of its own size, mass, and density drive up the prices through the inexorable laws of supply and demand, just like the laws of gravity drive up the weight of everything on Jupiter. I think New Yorkers deserve kudos for maintaining such a well-run society in the face of such massive social and personal stresses.......Jake

[♥ COVID-19♥]

You really shouldn't post when you're that drunk, even if it *is* your birthday.

[Merlot Joe]

May 18, 2009 21:30:27 GMT -6 ♥ COVID-19♥ said:

I think spending a short amount of time living in NYC is more of a romantic dream for some and certainly not something most folks can handle for a lifetime, unless you're from here originally (and even then ... )

I will agree with that statement. Having been there once and really loving the place you say to yourself "Hell I could llive here". Yeah right maybe for week then I would be running for the hills.

Nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

Joe.

[DT]

I know with what I made and the cost of raising three kids kept my head (financially) barely above water. It wasn't until after they were late into their teens I could float and enjoy the sun.

[innit Geezer]

This is what I mean by bloated. Perhaps there's a better word or phrase to use. (red tape?, excessive bureaucracy?) There's more parking directions taped to the pole.

[Irish Stu]

I'm with Gary and DT 100 percent on this. I make a good living, and when I was married my ex wife worked part time as a mobile hairdresser and was able to contribute towards the day to day 'running costs' of our two children. By necessity we ran two cars and needed to live in a 3/4 bedroom home. We took an annual vacation with the children, and a trip to Hedo without them each year. All four of us needed to eat, our cars needed petrol, and our property taxes were three or four times higher for our 'sensible' family home than they are for the one and two bedroom apartments with the picturesque views down by the river. We also needed to keep warm in the winter, cool in the summer, use gas cooking for four people, light rooms for four people, and burn electricity in the washing machine cleaning four peoples clothes. The childrens' cots had to be replaced with beds as they got older, their baby furniture replaced with grown-up dressing tables and wardrobes. Then there are all those school trips to pay for... musical instruments, sports equipment... the list goes on and on and on and on.

I would love that there would have been enough money left over every month to save a substantial amount, but I live in the real world. Oh, we could have forgone our vacations and saved the money instead, but life is short and I don't work myself into the ground all year not to take a little time off and get away from it all... otherwise why bother working hard at all?

Chris, I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. If I had been single with no dependents then little of what I have written above would have applied... I could live much more cheaply, have a higher disposable income and put lots of money away every month. But that is not how it is for most families, wherever they are in the world. Most live from month to month, and is best summed up by the saying "How come there is always so much month left at the end of the money?"

And should I ever need to ask the state for help then I damn well will. I'm entitled to it. I have paid many times more into the system over the years than I would receive while I got myself back on my feet.

Simon

[innit Geezer]

On a side note, we took a family vacation to Hilton Head Island staying at the Hilton. A great trip, nice beach and good restaurants. Airfare for 4, a minivan rental plus assorted activities and partying --- $6,000. Ahh, good memories!