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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 7, 2012 13:45:24 GMT -6
Which now raises the question: If the GOP runs Jindal or Rubio in 2016, would either win?
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Post by New Mama on Nov 7, 2012 14:24:04 GMT -6
Which now raises the question: If the GOP runs Jindal or Rubio in 2016, would either win? Way too early to opine on this. If Obama succeeds at pulling us out of this economic slump and gets unemployment back under 5 we could be waiting decades before the Republicans make a comeback.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 7, 2012 14:32:29 GMT -6
It's never too early. Besides, I was responding to the issue of non-white voters.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 7, 2012 14:48:44 GMT -6
Which now raises the question: If the GOP runs Jindal or Rubio in 2016, would either win? Way too early to opine on this. If Obama succeeds at pulling us out of this economic slump and gets unemployment back under 5 we could be waiting decades before the Republicans make a comeback. If Obama gets the economy chugging on all cylinders, he can remain President For Life for all I care. My problem is, he can't and he won't. I don't think he even wants to. He'd rather turn us into Greece.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 7, 2012 14:59:29 GMT -6
Not if he's seriously concerned with leaving a positive legacy -- and what POTUS wants to leave a negative legacy?
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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 7, 2012 16:44:33 GMT -6
I think if he turned us into a European-style socialist democracy, he would consider that a positive legacy. So would many of his acolytes. That's my main problem with him: his ideas of success coincide with my ideas of disaster.
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Post by innit Geezer on Nov 7, 2012 18:14:09 GMT -6
It just occurred to me I never voted out of my race either.
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Post by Merlot Joe on Nov 7, 2012 19:20:01 GMT -6
Which now raises the question: If the GOP runs Jindal or Rubio in 2016, would either win? It is early but they need to get their shit together and show the minority voters that they care.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 7, 2012 19:30:18 GMT -6
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the older white male is quickly becoming the minority.
Also, as you can see from other state voting, it's more than just a racial issue of attracting minorities, it's a socio-economic issue, too -- e.g., other states voted in favor of gay marriage. The GOP has to open its eyes to this and learn to embrace (no pun intended) The Log Cabin Republicans.
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Post by Tex on Nov 7, 2012 19:57:09 GMT -6
Which now raises the question: If the GOP runs Jindal or Rubio in 2016, would either win? Hard to say. I don't know as much about Rubio as Jindal, but Jindal straightened out Louisiana, which is saying a lot. IMHO, the Republicans have damaged their brand by making a big deal about abortion, gays, and Mexicans. I know a lot of people who are put off by the Democrat's nanny state big government ways, but are more put off by the Republican's preachiness. The 47% and the bias in the fourth estate make for strong headwinds too. Too early to say what four years will bring. Maybe the Libertarians can pick up the pieces and put something new together the way the Republicans did after the Whigs fell apart. Maybe that is reading too much into a very close election. If the Republicans want to be viable in the future, they will have to make peace with woman, gays, and Mexicans. JMHO.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 7, 2012 20:09:04 GMT -6
If the Republicans want to be viable in the future, they will have to make peace with woman, gays, and Mexicans. True -- just saw an interview with Rudy Giuliani on CNN tonight and he basically said the same thing. If the GOP doesn't soften on certain social issues, they're doomed. During the 2008 campaign, I remember seeing Rudy on TV at a speaking engagement in Florida where he took questions from Republicans. After the event, the reporter asked attendees what they thought; he walked up to one woman who looked absolutely HORRIFIED. "He's disturbingly liberal", was how she replied. As a lifelong New Yorker, I can tell you that if anyone here heard someone characterize Rudy as a liberal, they would laugh so hard that tears would stream down their face. Perhaps that one moment encapsulated the entire problem with the GOP; as mayor, Rudy got 48% of the Hispanic vote and championed gay rights, much to the displeasure of much of his party.
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Post by Tex on Nov 7, 2012 20:21:21 GMT -6
GW Bush won the Hispanic vote in his second run for Texas governor. He was a better governor than POTUS. Governors can't start wars and the parties are quite civil to each other in Austin, which makes deal cutting much easier than in DC.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 7, 2012 20:32:36 GMT -6
W also did well in winning the Hispanic vote when he ran for POTUS -- statistics have shown that McCain didn't do anywhere near as well and Romney did worse still (only 27%). Do the math.
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Post by Robin Hood on Nov 7, 2012 23:55:00 GMT -6
Ok, I will chime in here with my thoughts as well...
The biggest problem with the Republican party is the SOCIAL ISSUES! When you have the "purists" (i.e. Akin) out there spouting stupid shit it turns off voters. I was appalled by some of the abortion rhetoric coming out of these campaigns.... face it folks... abortion is here to stay, end of story. I am pretty Libertarian on my social views, I don't feel that the gov't should be in the marriage business and I could give a shit less if someone wants to spark up a big ol' fatty. What I do care about is a bustling economy and my country watching my back from the bad guys. I think a larger portion (and getting bigger everyday BTW) of the electorate feels the way I do.
I also lay a good portion of the blame for this loss on the mainstream media. The coverage of the clusterfuck in Bengazi was abysmal, the negative coverage on the nightmare response to Sandy has been absent as well. Let's not forget Fast and Furious.... where is the media??
With that said, here is what I envision for the next 4 years... 1) Obama will continue to blame his failures with the economy on what he inherited... 2) Israel will be attacked. 3) In 2016 the economy will be stagnant if not worse than it is today. 4) Gas prices will be over $6 a gallon 5) The national debt will continue to climb at an unprecedented rate, saddling our future generations. 6) I also foresee another major terrorist strike on US soil. 7) Iran will get a nuclear weapon. 8) More hidden meetings and executive orders that circumvent the Constitution. 9) Major gun control laws banning assault weapons.
From the Republicans I foresee this... 1) More gridlock... to be honest I can't blame them, they are trying to slow down the train before it derails. 2) There will be a "reassessment" of values... which will fail miserably. 3) I look to see a third party rise, Libertarian most likely. 4) If the Republicans can't pull their heads out of their asses and stop the hard core evangelicals from being nominated they are doomed...
To be perfectly honest, I think we are heading off a cliff in this country. I am not trying to be contrary or a firebrand, but if you look at history, the last time the country was this divided it started a civil war. I don't think we will go that way, but I do look to see more and more states tell the federal gov't to fuck off... Montana I think has fired the first shot in this war by passing the “Montana Health Care Freedom Act”. I look to see more and more states follow their lead as the federal gov't becomes more intrusive into our personal lives.
I hope I am wrong... and four years I welcome you to come back here and tell me I was totally off base.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 8, 2012 0:42:19 GMT -6
RH - I think you are about 90% on the money. The only part of your manifesto that I doubt is the rise of a third party. We live in a two-party universe. And I don't mean the USA, I mean the real universe. A different party may rise, but it will be at the death of a previous party, just like the Republican party only ascended to the national stage when the Whig party expired.
I am very curious who Obama will blame when the economy still sucks four years from now. Will the electorate still be gullible enough to blame George W. Bush eight years out? Unfortunately, the answer is probably Yes.
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Post by Merlot Joe on Nov 8, 2012 0:45:54 GMT -6
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the older white male is quickly becoming the minority. Then we should be getting all the freebies. The Republicans need to look at all the issues. First before they do anything else they need to dump the religious right. They have gained way to much traction over the past 12 years. GWB was the start of it. They kind of mentioned this last night on MSNBC of how the Republican look at what a persons religion is and how the Demos really don't care.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 8, 2012 1:08:51 GMT -6
Then we should be getting all the freebies. To quote every welfare mother in the housing projects: "Yeah, Baby!!!! Where's mine? " I'm ready for my free ride. Where do I sign?
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Post by Merlot Joe on Nov 8, 2012 1:23:59 GMT -6
Here's some information for you. California the biggest prise in the Electoral College no longer even plays a part on election night. Not since GHWB has a GOP candidate even come close to winning the state. The polls close at 8:00PM and @ 8:00:01 the declare the Democrat the winner. Here's a little article showing the national vote, CA vote and Sonoma County vote. US President - National Vote 99% Counted Barack Obama, D 60,660,135 50.5% Mitt Romney, 57,817,973 48.1% Gary Johnson 1,165,949 1.0% Jill Stein, G 408,430 0.3% Roseanne Barr, P&F 49,508 0.0% Thomas Hoefling, AL 8,655 0.0% US President - California Vote 24,491 of 24,496 Precincts Barack Obama, D 5,581,991 59.1% Mitt Romney, 3,645,262 38.6% Gary Johnson, L 98,890 1.0% Jill Stein, G 57,786 0.6% Roseanne Barr, P&F 36,975 0.4% Thomas Hoefling, AL 27,104 0.3% US President - Sonoma County Vote 433 of 433 Precincts Barack Obama, D 124,504 70.8% Mitt Romney, R 45,666 26.0% Gary Johnson,L 2,090 1.2% Jill Stein, G 2,037 1.2% Roseanne Barr, P&F 855 0.5% Thomas Hoefling, AI 586 0.3% Curly Howard, TTS 1 0.0% It is totally ridiculous that the biggest catch of the night has no stake in the race like Ohio, or Florida. So if you are in favor of the GOP candidate why bother to vote unless you are voting for propostions or local measures? www.watchsonomacounty.com/results2012/president.html
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Post by Merlot Joe on Nov 8, 2012 1:25:46 GMT -6
Then we should be getting all the freebies. To quote every welfare mother in the housing projects: "Yeah, Baby!!!! Where's mine? " I'm ready for my free ride. Where do I sign? It will never happen. White Males will always flip the bill no matter how small of a minority they may become.
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Post by Irish Stu on Nov 8, 2012 6:22:19 GMT -6
RH - I think you are about 90% on the money. The only part of your manifesto that I doubt is the rise of a third party. We live in a two-party universe. And I don't mean the USA, I mean the real universe. A different party may rise, but it will be at the death of a previous party, just like the Republican party only ascended to the national stage when the Whig party expired Jake, in the UK we had a three party system... Tories, Labour and the Liberal Democrats. But in essence this was a TWO party system as the LibDems were nothing more than an amusing sideshow with no hope of ever holding any power. Well not until the 2010 election when the public's dislike of the Labour government and our distrust of the Tories due to the legacy of John Major, saw the LibDems get enough votes to hold the balance of power and decide which of the other two parties they formed a government with. Hence the Conservative/LibDem government we have now. It CAN happen.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Nov 8, 2012 6:24:44 GMT -6
Rosanne Barr got almost 50,000 votes nationwide...WTF were those nutcases smoking, I want to try that shit.
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Post by Tex on Nov 8, 2012 7:30:24 GMT -6
Rosanne Barr got almost 50,000 votes nationwide...WTF were those nutcases smoking, I want to try that shit. 37,000 of them from California.
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Post by Ardbeg... innit on Nov 8, 2012 7:50:26 GMT -6
True, but only 800 were in Sonoma County, so its not likely a wine related issue.
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 8, 2012 9:12:16 GMT -6
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the older white male is quickly becoming the minority. First before they do anything else they need to dump the religious right. They have gained way to much traction over the past 12 years. GWB was the start of it. I would suggest it was actually Reagan -- remember Jerry Falwell?
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Post by ♥ COVID-19♥ on Nov 8, 2012 9:17:44 GMT -6
It is totally ridiculous that the biggest catch of the night has no stake in the race like Ohio, or Florida. ... Which may be why early voting in that state should get greater encouragement -- if not required.
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Post by Robin Hood on Nov 8, 2012 13:02:30 GMT -6
RH - I think you are about 90% on the money. The only part of your manifesto that I doubt is the rise of a third party. We live in a two-party universe. And I don't mean the USA, I mean the real universe. A different party may rise, but it will be at the death of a previous party, just like the Republican party only ascended to the national stage when the Whig party expired. I am very curious who Obama will blame when the economy still sucks four years from now. Will the electorate still be gullible enough to blame George W. Bush eight years out? Unfortunately, the answer is probably Yes. When I say 3rd party I am talking about the death of what is now the Republican Party... as far as I am concerned they are on their deathbed and without an influx of more Libertarian thinking leaders they are doomed to breathe their last very soon. American's just aren't as religious as they were even 20 years ago. Religion in politics is a dying ember that I would prefer be left to go out. I have my beliefs as do most other Americans and we just don't want to have some religious zealot spouting crap out their ass at us from an elected government position.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 8, 2012 13:57:48 GMT -6
In that case, I'm with you 100%.
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Post by Robin Hood on Nov 14, 2012 21:45:25 GMT -6
Well that didn't take long... the situation in Israel is escalating quickly... Prediction #2 is already coming true.
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Post by Diana on Nov 17, 2012 16:37:43 GMT -6
... ....I have said it before; the reason Obama won is because too many people receive a government check. Whether it’s and government/public sector job, social security, grants, welfare, food stamps, housing, free phone or free medical care. The Obama campaign convinced the voters that their future checks were in jeopardy if they vote for Romney....... Or as Rush put it this morning: It's tough to run against Santa Claus. edited to add: This is a perfect place to repeat my suggestion that if you receive ANY kind of government largesse, you DO NOT GET TO VOTE. So because I'm a federal employee I don't deserve the right to vote? Wow.
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Post by Chicago Jake on Nov 17, 2012 18:18:44 GMT -6
I said "largesse," not salary. I'm talking about welfare, food stamps, public housing - stuff you don't earn.
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